Athletes and Ballplayers - 2

=== Batting Averages for Pitchers ===

Bill James observed that the "blow 'em away lefties" have a tendency to be terrible hitters.  In my view they tend to actually be physically-awkward geeks, with Randy Johnson being the prototype.  I've noticed that the typical Cy Young pitcher tends to be a worse hitter than other pitchers are.

For every Greg Maddux who handles the bat well (IIRC) there are a dozen Randy Johnsons, Matt Cains (103 K in his first 199 AB's), Ryan Dempsters, Aaron Harangs, Brett Myerses, Chris Carpenters, and Barry Zitos...

If I worked for the Hardball Times, that would be one mini-study I'd do:  The last 100 guys who finished with K rates above 8 (or 9, or 10), how did they hit compared to the average pitcher?   Since the gig is SSI, I'll let somebody else spend their afternoon proving something that I don't care about enough, to set aside the time to resolve.  :- )  We'll chat baseball.

.........

Would be pretty tough to design a good study asking, "how did the multi-sport stars do?"  Almost impossible to isolate the variables since most ML stars were high-school good at every sport.  Which ML players, in retrospect, were Taijuan Walker-freakish in other sports?  How do you use a dunk video to separate player groups A and B? 

Which ML players were freakish at basketball and football .... vs., which were only very good?  Tough study to design.

And it would be very tough to isolate the variables for a study that asked, "did these 50 guys overperform draft expectations?," though that is at least possible. 

.

=== He Hate Me, Dept.===

Having played my share of inner-city hoops, you recognize this type of personality when you see it.  It goes far beyond Chris Tillman type of immaturity.  This isn't immaturity; it's a personality.  There's a difference.

Of course, every org would love to stay away from the T.O. personality if at all possible.  We once asked an AL exec whether this kind of swagger was a positive or a negative.  He was adamant:  baseball isn't about swagger.  It's about intelligence.  Let me know when you find something intelligent on that MySpace page...

That's what the minor-league system is for, to smooth out those kinds of wrinkles, but...

...............

That kind of personality is a handicap in baseball, no, a disability.  But at what point do sheer personality problems cause a player to slide too far?  If Randy Moss should have been the #1 overall, and he slides to #10, do you take him then?  What if he's around in the 5th round?  You take him sometime.

In the M's dream scenario, they got a top-10 pick here that nobody wanted to touch because of Betancourt-type problems with discipline (as reflected in his pitching inconsistency).  Then they teach him to play team ball, as they did in fact do with Chris Tillman, and they've got a value pick...

.

=== Moneyball Dept. ===

Generally, baseball has a good handle on the fact that 1,500 yards rushing doesn't help a guy play baseball.

However, there does remain an irrational bias against ballplayers who are lousy athletes.  People associate Billy Beane's value Moneyball judgment with walks.  I associate it with the fact that he doesn't care -- as much as other teams do -- whether a ballplayer is carrying 15 pounds too many.

We remember when Prince's dad, Cecil, brought a 5-year-old Prince to the ballpark.  The M's radio announcer talked about it later in the booth.  "Boy, Cecil's son is a chip off the old block," he said with great distaste.

This remains an opportunity for value in baseball.  It's going to be there for a long time.  Some baseball men sneer when a ballplayer is 15 pounds too heavy.

Jack Zduriencik, a huge Prince Fielder fan, doesn't.  One more long-term advantage for the M's.

.

Part 3

 

Comments

1
OBF's picture

I think you are being a bit unfair critiquing an 18 year olds MySpace page, Doc.  Seriously, as a child of the MySpace age I can tell you that his MySpace page is very TAME and MATURE for the average high school kid.  In fact I see one thing that is VERY encouraging:
Smoke/Drink:     No/No

This tells me the kid has at least a decent head on his shoulders he know he needs to stay away from the cigs and the sauce (unlike, for instance, Daniel Cortes.  You want to see someone with a personality disorder, go look at him!).  In fact I love the fact that Walker spends his extra time doing what he loves, playing sports.  He doesn't go out a drink, or party, or smoke weed, he goes to the gym and films dunk videos with his buds :)
In fact the one thing that worries me about his MySpace page is that it confirms for me that baseball is not his passion, basketball is!  
Under occupation he lists... Basketball
Every photo and video is ... Of a Basketball player
Person he most wants to meet... Michael Jordan.
In fact the only baseball related thing on there is his Mood which is... Mariners ::googly eyes::
It would worry me that he doesn't have the desire to be a truly great baseball player, like it appears he has the desire to be a truly great basketball player, but that he really likes the up front money the M's are offering ;)  Of course we also have a guy like Chone Figgens who is open about the fact that his first love is Basketball, but he was just too short to play.
Finally here is the proof on his MySpace page that he WILL BE Successful:
Heros... MOM
Paraphrasing... Honor thy Father and Mother so it may go well with thee, and you will have long life!  :)

2

and you pointed them out.  :- )  Thanks OBF.  Thought-provoking.
I like your points that he advertises himself as clean, that he loves his mama and that his heroes are rich black sports stars.
..................
By saying that Walker is "very tame and mature" compared to the 50th-percentile high school student, are you saying that the typical 2010 senior is drug-addicted, has a Human Centipede download on his hard drive and cop-killa rap in his CD changer?  :- )
I've got an 18- and 19-year-old myself, and for the moment am still relatively in touch with the kids at the local high schools ... perhaps less than I thought, obviously...
Can only suggest that there are a dozen different routes to go for a teenager, and I hope it's not true that the vast majority choose the extreme antisocial route...  perhaps it is, though...
....................
Your point is well taken that he has avoided some extremes.  Fortunately, sports will still do that for some kids.
My own counterpoint would be that as a coach of young athletes myself, Taijuan's home page is pretty much the opposite of what I'm looking for.
He's a (narcissistic) jock, as opposed to a crackhead, banger or super joe.  No doubts there.  If that makes him a saint by today's HS standards, I guess that explains a lot in our society...
:smile:

3

"The biggest boss you'll evah see!"
That's as far as I read on his MySpace page.  And yes...I think that it's entirely fair and accurate to describe a line like that as narcissiistic and immature. And yes...there are hundreds of good athletes who are not walking around with his 'tude.

4

There's lots more where that came from, if you'd kept reading. 
Will stick to my guns that there are plenty of Tony Butler captain-of-his-team-yessir-rightaway-sir MySpace's out there ...
Though OBF's point is very well taken that Taijuan is not a juvenile delinquent by -- according to OBF now -- today's standards.
Which is probably what the M's figured.  Hey, he hasn't done time in juvy, it's all good. ;- )

5
OBF's picture

By saying that Walker is "very tame and mature" compared to the 50th-percentile high school student, are you saying that the typical 2010 senior is drug-addicted, has a Human Centipede download on his hard drive and cop-killa rap in his CD changer?  :- )

First of all I would be very careful making character judgments about a person based on his MySpace page.  As we already pointed out HE CLAIMS to be a clean person, so I am not sure how you can claim he is drug addicted (although if you read the statistics MOST high schoolers these day have drank or smoked weed).
As far as "Cop-Killa" gangster rap goes... hey now I love to listen to rap (and Classical, and Jazz, and hard rock, and Accapella Christian, and... etc.) are you going to claim that I am a juvenile delinquent as well?  
I've got an 18- and 19-year-old myself, and for the moment am still relatively in touch with the kids at the local high schools ... perhaps less than I thought, obviously...

I am surprised that you find his MySpace page to be as offensive as you do, especailly since you have a teenager who has grown up in the grand theft auto generation.  I have no doubt that you have raised a good kid, and that he doesn't participate in anything untoward, but then again I don't think that you can claim Taijuan is involved in anything untoward from his MySpace page either.  Just a normal teenager with a normal, if not tame MySpace page.  A guy who obviously does not have elite computer skills (I can hardly read that page it looks terrible I will give you that), and has some teenage angst and bravado, but other than that i really don;t see anything worrisome on that page.  
He's a (narcissistic) jock, as opposed to a crackhead, banger or super joe.  No doubts there.  If that makes him a saint by today's HS standards, I guess that explains a lot in our society...

And what pro athletes aren't narcissistic?  In fact some would say it is a prerequisite!  Do you think A-Rod got to where he is at because he DIDN'T focus solely on himself?  Further what on his MySpace Page can you point to that makes him seem narcissistic?  It is a page about him, that is the whole point of MySpace, so of course he has stuff about himself on it, what else would you expect?  Seriously, what on there points to narcissism?  I don't see it.
Anyway, I hope I am not trying to put too fine a point on it, but I don't think you can really make ANY good evaluation of a person off of their teen aged MySpace page.  I look back on some of the things I did, say, thought when I was a teenager and just laugh out loud.  It is pretty amazing how much your perspective changes between the years 18 and 21.  Don;t worry the Minor Leagues will teach him a thing or two, life will teach him a thing or two, just like every other teenager out there (including yours I am sure).

6
OBF's picture

Make a character judgement about another person based solely on one status update to a MySpace page?  You have never claimed something similar?  You have never talked a little bit of smack during a video game, or a game of ping pong, or a fantasy league claiming yourself the best at something?  
It is a little unfair for complete strangers to peek into a teenagers social network site, one which he thinks only his buds look at, one where he is mostly pimping and preen for a small sect of his close friends and start making character judgments off of single spinets in time, off hand comments.
And the pool of his comparable is NOT all athletes, it is other TEENAGE athletes.  Dustin Ackley for instance is a completely UNFAIR comparison.  The completely narcissistic 19 year old Ken Griffrey Jr though?  Sure he is is comparable.  Loved rap?  check.  Loved himself?  check.  If MySpace was around would he claim himself as the "Biggest Boss Evah"?  probably.
Further, like I say below, narcissism is probably a GOOD quality for an athlete to have, in terms of will they be a successful pro.  Look at A-Rod or Barry Bonds, or any other "Great".  Or to get out of the steroids era, Babe Ruth or Ty Cobbs, these men are all about themselves, they had to be to have such single minded insistence on being great.
For a guy who in times passed has felt mis-characterized by others because his online persona was misinterpreted, I would think that you of all people would be the slowest to judge a guy based on one single line of text on an 18 year olds MySpace page.
(edit:  It is unclear in the layout of the comments that this is a response to SabrMatt, so just to clear that up...)

7

There is tons of information on his MySpace page.  This particular argument, "don't judge a book by its cover," don't fly.
He's got what, 50, 100 friends on there, interactions with his friends, favorite movies and songs and etc etc.
My daughter isn't dating him, period.
..............
I wouldn't use the term "worrisome," agreed.  But the page is a joke, and so is he, as long as he uses it as a "Glad to meetcha here's who I am" bio.
...............
That's not to say he's a lost cause or condemned or any of that slop. 
But I scout my daughter's friends off their MySpaces.  C'mon, presidential candidates run campaigns off Facebooks and MySpaces. 
Don't come off like "hey, what can you really learn from one website."  It's a personal statement and bio.  It is intended to give you an idea of who he is.
That's an 18-year-old "boss" who isn't taking my daughter out.  Thanks for asking.

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