Ian Snell's New Hope

=== VIEW COMMENTS Feature ===

Had everybody noticed?   In the sidebar, under CONTENT, the View Comments link takes you to a "Hottest Groks" page that allows you to scan for new material in the threads. 

It's more robust, though, with not only the author's ID but also a snippet from each post.  Kudos to our heavy-duty developers.  A legit platform for MC/DOV denizens?  Vot next?  Actual quality content?

=== San-Man Sez ===

[In reply to the Sagan thread] I mentioned before that much of my value in analysis for the Ms was due to NOT having the emotional attachment of fandom.  (and as I feel that dispassion wane, I understand the dangers).  Of course, this is why when I get a little giddy with slapping myself on the back for my insight, I always try to slap myself on the face, too.

Recently I noted the Ms are overloaded with catcher talent, making ANY catcher in the fold expendable, (cay Clement).

I mentioned recently that somewhere in the mix of Z trades, a bullpen arm would likely be coming.  (welcome aboard Robert Manuel).

I mentioned 3-4 years ago that Snell had the stuff to become the most dominant pitcher of the generation.  (before I knew anything about his depression issues).  I reached on that, but maintain that he's got the "stuff" to become a top 10 pitcher.  All he needs is a team where he can have FUN coming to the ballpark with.

.

=== 6-4-3 Relay to 1B Dept. ===

Pretty sure that does make you unique in cyber-Seattle, San'.  Believe that you're the only baseball-hyper-literate junkie who doesn't root M's.   (or does he...)

The visual impairment you mentioned also adds to your savant-type, unique perception... the result is obvious...

Also think that, many times, you're one of the few that follow the NL as closely as you do.

For those unfamiliar with Snell's depression issues, here's a sample to give you the flavor.

..................

Great call on Jeff Clement in retrospect.  Don't think you had anybody with you on that one.

So if you're looking at Snell's stuff as All-Star caliber, hmmmm....

.

=== RX for Depression:  H-O-P-E ===

Helping folks with depression happens to be part of Jemanji's day job, as it happens.  

The defining characteristic of depression, IMHO, is a lack of H-O-P-E.  A guy is depressed?  First and foremost, that means he's lost his goals.  A depressed man has no goals.  He has no dreams, no positive visuals that get him out of bed in the morning.  He doesn't think it's realistic for good things to happen.  At least, not the things that he cares about.

In Snell's case, that very possibly means thoughts like, "So what if I go 14-9, 3.75?  That's just the minimum they all want.  I go out and give up 3 runs, fine, I'm not fired yet.  On to the next survival week."

......................

Sometimes people wonder how aggressive/hostile behavior like this can be associated with depression.

Aggression is often a (childish) reaction to frustration (frustration over dearly-held, but thwarted, goals).  Often Stage 1 is rage against the snuffing out of our life goals (such as, our dream of MLB baseball being fun).  Stage 2 may be a resigned sorrow.  The two can blend and morph.

Snell obviously didn't handle losing well.  He reacted with completely unacceptable, hostile, behavior.   I think of it as immaturity, as opposed to evil. 

You see a lot of good people wind up in jail.  And after they're out, they can get it together.  They just got way off track.  They couldn't handle their lives, and they imploded.  

Athletes can, and do, grow up fast, given the right environment.  Snell will need to.  Maybe he's just a bad guy, like those dogfighting fools are, but Jack Zduriencik does not think so.

.......................

Depression can clear up in the snap of a finger, if a person is given legitimate and compelling new H-O-P-E.  But that hope must be (a) compelling to the individual and (b) very, very realistic.  (A depressed man's will to battle obstacles is on a low ebb.)

(*Yes, we know depression can remain latent.  But potential depression is latent for most of us.)

The implications for Snell are obvious.  A new team to pitch for is a reset button.  They have to be super positive with him, baptize him every day in "you're going to be an ace for us and you're going to be here for ten years" encouragement.

..................

It's a lot easier to convince a guy that he can be a good salesman again, if he used to be a #1 salesman. 

It's not liable to be hard to convince Ian Snell that he can be an outstanding starting pitcher, seeing as he WAS one in 2006-07.   "Hey, dude, we're going to get you right back where you were.  No worries."

Hey, gimme all the 8k, 2bb starters in baseball, who may just need an arm around the shoulder.  I'll take a dozen.

.

=== IMPLOSION ===

I don't know what Snell's family situation is.  If he had a wife, for example, who was impossible to deal with (at least for him), that is a huge caveat.  But in Snell's public statements, he has indicated that the fans, media, and Pittsburgh team are what are driving him crazy.  And from what I've read, Snell speaks of his family as having been part of his solution, not part of his problem.

That's not the end of the story, but ...

Public life is weird (he says as a public speaker in his day job).  A lot of times we fans dismiss the pains and pressures of having an entire city on your back.  

Apparently Snell couldn't handle it.  I don't think most of us could, either.  How do you think that YOU would do if all of Seattle was mocking you, including and especially the people on local TV?

I'd like to see how fast you or I would snap, if we were placed into a situation like Snell's.  You've been hounded and hounded and hounded, and here comes another snotty interviewer, you're tied to the flagpole and they're just zipping you across the face with a shoestring every day...

The day came when Ian told them, "Forget all of you.  I'm not taking any more shoestrings across the face.  I'm out of here."  I completely sympathize.   I just can't understand why it doesn't happen more often.

.....................

A lot of us, certainly I, have been close to the point to where we just didn't want our chosen lives any more.  If you're 40-ish, they call it a "midlife crisis."  Why bash some other human being who just can't handle his life any more?  You've never felt that way?

....................

From a personal standpoint, we wish Ian the best, of course.  There comes a point where baseball is less important than other things.  Google Donnie Moore, if you're under 25.

From a baseball standpoint, this one (superficially, anyway) bears all the hopeful signs for a fast and dramatic turnaround for Snell.

He's got a Rainbow Road to a life that millions of people dream about.  He's got the golden arm.  He's got a reset button on the video game.  It's time for him to enjoy baseball again.

Best,

Jeff

Comments

1

...NOW anyway.  Last year, I'd have been worried about the clubhouse politics getting to Snell or Snell mistaking boos for Richie Sexson as boos for him. :-)   But in 2009, the Mariners are are a fun team to WATCH in the dugout...seriously every time they cut to a camera shot of the Mariner dugout, I crack up.  What does that tell you about how fun it will be to play for them? LOL
Not to mention...the fans are pretty casual here, so if he has a bad game, he's not gonna get booed back to Tacoma.  It took 18 months of suckage for people to get fed up with Sexson. :)

2

And even Sexson's situation was (a) mild and (b) exceptional.  That's about the worst I've seen Seattle get on an athlete, and it wasn't much compared to NY or Chicago.
I keep forgetting about the dugout, but absolutely.  I'll bet they just want Snell to get into any kind of groove and then they'll get him up and around Griff & Co.

3

Sometimes people wonder how aggressive/hostile behavior like this can be associated with depression.
Aggression is often a (childish) reaction to frustration (frustration over dearly-held, but thwarted, goals).  Often Stage 1 is rage against the snuffing out of our life goals (such as, our dream of MLB baseball being fun).  Stage 2 may be a resigned sorrow.  The two can blend and morph.
Snell obviously didn't handle losing well.  He reacted with completely unacceptable, hostile, behavior.   I think of it as immaturity, as opposed to evil.  You see a lot of good people wind up in jail.  And after they're out, they can get it together.  They got way off track.  They couldn't handle their lives, and they imploded.
Athletes can, and do, grow up fast, given the right environment.  Snell will need to.   Maybe he's just a bad guy, like the dogfighting fools are, but Jack Zduriencik does not think so.
I'd like to see how fast you or I would snap, if we were placed into a situation like Snell's.  :- )

4
Taro's picture

Thats probably the most convincing argument I've heard for a quick turn-around for Snell.
What do you think Doc, is he worth burning a #1 waiver pick on in an AL-only league?

5

I kind of like that this guy has some snarl to him, so long as they can get the depression under control.
The Rick Rizzsified M's haven't had anybody the other team feared in quite a while. Respected, yes, but feared? Maybe not since Randy left. Not that Snell is in that category of pitcher but there is something to be said for a guy that makes the other team's batters a little nervous in the box. A little bit of mean goes a long way when the guy is fighting on your side.
 
 
 

6

unless you think another good NL player is going to be traded today or tomorrow. Guys with his talent and track record can't be passed up.

7
NYMariner05's picture

With the staff we have in place and the support system I think we're all excited to see what Ian can do.
Just go to MLB.com and watch some of his performences and you can see this is a guy with an outstanding arm.

8
glmuskie's picture

Yer on a roll!  Helps to have some interesting and positive developments on the baseball diamond to respond to, doesn't it?  : )
Very interesting & succinct analysis of depression...  it tracks well with my own limited life experience.  Clearly you understand what Snell's mindset could be, or probably is...  Although I would guess that Wak's take with him will be less, 'We're going to make you a #1 pitcher again', and more, 'You've got great talent, we're going to help you make the most of it.  We're going to work our butts off, and have fun, and we're going to win'.  Less results-oriented goal setting, and more focus on the work and the process and letting the results take care of themselves. 
I've posted it before, but I'm not sure we understand how frustrating it could be to be a Pirates player.  You have a long and proud history, a beautiful ballpark, the local football team wins like crazy...  And your team is the laughingstock of baseball.  The AAA team for the teams that are actually playing to win.
Jack Wilson strikes me as a really affable, positive guy, and a heck of a baseball player.  Think he's happy to be a Mariner?  Check out what he was saying a month ago about the Pirates.
Different guys are going to respond to that situation differently.  Wilson was getting exasperated...  When you're a world-class athlete, you probably figure that after 9 years of playing that you'd at least taste winning a little bit. 
Snell is a different cat, and in a way its to his creadit that his situation frustrated him so much.

9

It's not like we expect a Roy Halladay to come across from NL to AL...
Snell has a reasonably clear path to the rotation, he will be an Anointed One from Capt Jack's point of view, and he's already shown that he can be an 8.0/2.5/1.1 type guy.   *I'd* certainly pull the trigger.

10

Really puts it in perspective.
They ALL feel gutpunched over there, time and time again, and Snell's the Bedard-type media un-fave who takes the brunt of the counter-reaction.
Personally, I'm very, very sympathetic about Snell's implosion.

12

But they do have (1) Kenji Johjima making $8M a year for sitting on the bench, in the 1st year of a 3-year deal...
(2) Rob Johnson, who they evidently feel may be better two-way catcher than Johjima, and
(3) Adam Moore, who almost certainly is better than the other two.
Clement *was* going to have a hard time getting behind the plate, right?  He was in Tacoma with no way to get up here.  Just in terms of a path to get into the M's starting lineup, there were problemos.
....................
Still, I agree with you, as I do 80% of the time.  ;- )   Your essential point is that they've got three guys, none of whom are very palatable for April 1, 2010.

13

You'll see in the next summer review article...I am not impressed with the catchers, but I was not impressed enough with Clement for it to matter that we traded him for Snell.
Catcher remains an organizational weak spot and I'd like to see the team develop a catcher soon...I am higher on Moore than you guys are, but he might not be ready by 2010.

14
Sandy - Raleigh's picture

I am certainly not a trained professional therapist.  But I have experience dealing with bi-polarism and paranoid schizophrenia.  In todays world, mental health issues remain the most stigmatized of all dibilitating conditions ... including AIDS.  If you say "Joe is in the hospital", and are asked "oh, what's wrong?" -- you can name almost any disease and continue to get sympathy.  But, it's HARD to respond ... "he's being treated for depression, (or paranoia), (or bi-polarism), etc."  Because, if you do, the response too often will not be sympathy, but an uncomfortable, "oh," followed by a quick change of topic.
While I believe our current state of mental health science may not be much better than leeches and blood letting, I still contend that we're never going to get better at dealing with these issues as long as we keep sweeping them under the rug.  I've had the privelege to see people with these conditions struggle and fail, struggle and fail, and then finally after a lot of setbacks ... succeed.  Not only are they better off -- but society as a whole is served, because instead of being locked away ... or allowed to become homeless beggars ... they are today working members of society, working to support themselves, (and contributing tax dollars). 
I also believe we'd have a lot fewer Virginia Tech's if saving dollars wasn't so often the over-riding factor when it comes to mental health issues.
 

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