POTD AROLDIS CHAPMAN, Slops, Saber

Slops first, but don't take 'em too hard ... the props volume is also cranked up to 11 :- ) 


Q.  Wow.  The Mariners are in on Aroldis Chapman.  If they nab him, they'll have the left hand Stephen Strasburg AND Dustin Ackley!

A.  To which we can confidently respond, "huh?"

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Q.  Chapman isn't the LH Strasburg?

A.  He is not, no.

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Q.  I thought he threw 100 mph.  You were all over Strasburg at DC Sports Insider.

A.  Even if Chapman throws 100* -- which I highly doubt -- he's still not Stephen Strasburg.  He's not even Tim Lincecum.  Not by a long shot.

*more than occasionally

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Q.  Based on what?

A.  Based on the fact that Strasburg and Lincecum were sabermetric heroes as well as radar-gun celebs.

Look, college stats are tricky.  But most ML orgs attempt to make sense of them.  You can isolate a set of batters that a pitcher faced -- the best 50 in the conference, or the top-25 teams, or batters that were drafted, or whatever.

You can compare pitchers to each other, in the same conference.  That's what D-O-V did to point out that Tim Lincecum was a far better prospect than Brandon Morrow -- Lincecum fanned twice as many hitters as Morrow in the same league.

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Q.  Well, Strasburg's college stats weren't THAT good that you'd call him a once-in-a-lifetime guy based on nothing else.  It was his fastball people loved.

A.  Stephen Strasburg:

  1. Ran the 180/19 (!) control ratio in 102 innings, and ....
  2. He maintained the 15/1 type control ratios against the best teams, and
  3. We had a chance to watch him in his worst starts (which were the same as his best starts), and
  4. We had a chance to watch him sequentially.

In other words, we saw Strasburg fire his fraction-of-C-velocity beams past hitters in starts X, and X+1, and X+2, and X+3 -- so we knew what his "downside" was.  It wasn't.

If Strasburg threw 74 mph, he'd have been my #1 overall.  Actual results (saber) first, theory (tools scouting) second. 

The results on Strasburg were surreal.  Guys with metal pipes in their hands, taking pepper swings, couldn't make contact.  Ever.

.....

That's not the same thing as having videos and flashes of Aroldis Chapman here and there.  How do we know whether, once in three starts, he throws 89 mph?

And we don't have any meaningful stats on him to speak of -- those that we do, like from the WBC, ain't no blinkin' 180-19 scorched-mound policy.   People make lots of contact off Chapman.

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Q.  Leaving him where, from a saber standpoint?

A.  From a strictly results standpoint, we would take one step back and let the tools scouts have the loudest voices in the conference room.

The good news is, he did conquer Cuba.  Stats or no, he generally moved to the head of the pack of Cuban pitchers, right?

And although his WBC stats aren't anything that a lot of other pitchers didn't accomplish, they still notch a plus on his resume, if you view Chapman as a prospect.  Not a lot of minors pitchers would rack up >9k a game in the WBC.

His sabermetrics don't make him Strasburg or Lincecum.  But they also don't exactly leave him in class-A baseball, now do they.  His track record leaves him at about the level of a very young pitcher who has had a nice year in AAA, high K, high BB, unpolished.

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PART II

PART III

Comments

1
Taro's picture

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=9382
Control seems to be the big issue here. The stuff is obviously there.
I think most teams would have taken him #3 in the '09 draft. Some organization out there has to think that they can tweak his mechanics to tap into enormous potential. Who knows though? Cubans don't have a good track record (the signing bonus is usually beyond their wildest dreams already).
That said, the Ms should sign him depending on the $ it costs. High risk, high reward. Kendry Morales is already a screaming bargain for LAA.
 

2

Was an unknown and a dice roll coming out of Japan, but as another team put it, "they took the risk and now they're reaping the benefits."   Ichiro's first several years were pennies on the dollar.

3
Taro's picture

Ya, but I'd say Ichiro was more Strasburg than Chapman.. Guys that had the talent and track record to star immediately at the big league level.
Morales was the best hitting prospect to come out of Cuba, but it took him a little time to develop.. Chapman is kind of the pitching version of Morales. We've never seen a pitcher that talented before out of Cuba, but he is still very raw.
 

4

Actually better than that, probably.  Ichiro had (per his game) overwhelmed a much higher level of competition.
I'd take the 2000 Ichiro before I'd take Strasburg right now.  Easily.

6

Thanks for the great crunch, Doc.
Here's a take from Churchill: "What I heard a week ago or so was that the M's were "interested" but that most assumed they would be grossly outbid because they wouldn't be willing to spend 70 or 80 million or more on him. 
Personally, I don't think he's worth it anyway, and if they have 80 million to throw around, the 2010 and 2011 clubs would be better served if that money was spread across multiple impact players.  I also know the M's like the Japanese prep kid quite a bit, too." http://prospectinsider.com/view/an-afl-note/?PHPSESSID=da858a4a17df379a3...
The "Japanese prep kid" being Yusei Kikuchi, whom I pointed out here: http://seattlesportsinsider.com/news/japanese-pitcher-considers-opting-o...
The latest appears to be that he will talk with 12 Japanese and 8 MLB teams: http://home.kyodo.co.jp/modules/fstStory/index.php?storyid=465101
This appears to be extended video here, but it would be great to have some of our experts give us a take on the young man. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJnYexJOcX4
He's listed as 6-0, 183, which is a little bigger than Robles (5-10, 170), but still not the prototype flamethrower.  I didn't go frame by frame but in the youtube he's pretty much in the 140s kph, which is 87-92.  Breaking pitches in the 115-120 kph or 71-75.  At the 4:00 mark he goes 149 high and wide (93 mph) and then gets the K with a 119 (74 mph) breaking pitch.
Would Kikuchi be a top 10 US draft pick, too?  Do the Ms still have that "inside track" in Japan?  Do you ever give millions to a HS pitcher or a Cuban defector?  If so, which is the better risk?

7
M-Pops's picture

Fun clip.  Thanks for the link.
 
Looks like a power FB and a CB with great arm speed. This and the way he attacked the hitters (as many CB's as FB) reminds me a lot of what made Bedard so successful.  The garbage swing at end the of the last AB is what I remember seeing a lot from hitters facing Erikkkk.  Also kind of reminds me of championship Pettitte, when his FB had little more zap.
 
The slight bow of apology to the ump after he was nicked with a foul tip was also nice to see.  Humble and a firey competitor...I'll take two!

8

Would anybody give that much, to the best NPB pitcher?  And of course you've got jillions more to go on with a Japanese star than with a Cuban star.

9

As we all know, in practical terms, a pitcher who was a top-10 draft pick would be a different situation than Chapman.
Personally consider Chapman a #3 overall in 2009, but obviously some teams are going to peg him as a lot more than that.
If Kikuchi came over, it would probably establish a baseline for what a top-10 draft pick would be, if he were a free agent.  Am sure that Boras will be watching closely.

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