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POTD AROLDIS CHAPMAN - Props

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Sandy's picture
Submitted by Sandy on

Three parts - and you wait until paragraph Omega to mention Contreras?  Shame on you, Doc.  :)

Incredible stuff, questionable control, Cuban, greedy

But hey, a 4.61 ERA and a 2.00 K/BB ratio is gonna beat what most pitching prospects will ever produce.  First rounder?  Maybe.  But, I wouldn't slate him #3.  Too much baggage.

jemanji's picture
Submitted by jemanji on

Buried the lead.  That goes high on the Dr. D scouting report.  Buries the lead :- )

Let's see, I'm trying to remember.  Was Contreras' stuff thought as highly of, pre-signing, as Chapman's is now?

glmuskie's picture
Submitted by glmuskie on

Remember how giddy Gillick was about possibly signing Contreras?  Contreras had actually mowed down some MLB batters (the Blue Jays, I believe) in some sort of exhibition game pre-defection.  there were some who thought he'd come in and be an instant #1 starter, #2 at the worst.

Of course Chapman comes in to the picture when upside means more than actual results... or even realistic projected results.

I'm with Sandy on this one.  Not only is he a  young lefty flamethrower whose arm could go 'ping' at any moment, the makeup issues have me wrinkling my nose.

 

Taro's picture
Submitted by Taro on

Contreras was in his mid 30s when he came over. Less raw velocity, RH, much more polish.

Both are Cuban defects, but you're taking about two different people in two different situations. Contreras was MLB ready and quickly entering the decline-phase of his career. Chapman is a prospect.

jemanji's picture
Submitted by jemanji on

But Aroldis' upside shouldn't be minimized.  It's very realistic to figure a 1/3 chance that he'll be one of the AL's* ten best pitchers in fairly short order.

Taro's picture
Submitted by Taro on

Chapman's upside is unlimited. He could end up being the best pitcher in baseball (or a washout on the other end).

How many lefty SPs in the Majors even average 94mph? C.C. Sabathia averaged 94.1mph. Kershaw and Lester were in the 93.5-94mph range. And thats it. Chapman is in rare territory.

You don't want to undersell the upside. I'm just saying that Aroldis is a very different case from Contreras who was far more polished at the time, had less raw stuff, and was in his mid-30s. Personality-wise they don't seem very similar either.

glmuskie's picture
Submitted by glmuskie on

Was advertised as *31* when he came over.  Actually, as 30 when he defected.  So when GM's were drooling over him, they figured there were still 5-7 years of prime domination in him.

Here's a Baseball America article from the time.

I stand corrected, it was against the Orioles that he pitched, and it was 8 innings of 2-hit ball with 10 K's.

And as the article states, he was dominant in international competition.

If anything, I think Contreras was more highly sought-after than Chapman is right now.  I was very hopeful that the M's would sign him, and I believe Gillick offered more money than the Yankees.  But Contreras wanted to wear pinstripes.

Whereas I was thinking the M's should break the bank to get Contreras, I don't think the M's should go to crazy trying to get Chapman.  Ya, I'll probably be wrong about that too.  : )

Taro's picture
Submitted by Taro on

Ya, and I mean its not like Contreras was a disaster. He was great for a handful of starts in '03, awful at Yankee stadium in '04 (perhaps the wrong environment for a guy like him), then in '05 and '06 was a 4-WARish pitcher in that bandbox in Chicago until his velocity faded and he turned into a slightly above-average SP in his decline years.

Contreras was a pretty decent #2 pitcher for a couple years. The '04 season is warping our impression of him.. Contreras earned his deal. He just produced after he was traded from NY.

glmuskie's picture
Submitted by glmuskie on

And came across this great article about Contreras, almost 2 years after his defection.

It gives you a sense of just how emotionally trying and culturally difficult it is to do what he did.

Chapman, now...  I think his TO tude actually helps him.  Well, that and his youth.  He's young, he's dumb, and full of that stuff that 20YO kids have in their head that makes them think they're invincible.  He has the next 10 years to develop the kind of meaningful adult relationships that Contreras had when he defected.

mabalasek's picture
Submitted by mabalasek on

Young? Full of potential? Plays crazy baseball? Cuban?

I'll pass. Sounds too much like Yuni to me. Even though they play different positions, the attitude and life perspective might lead to the same road. I remember reading an article saying that even though Cubans play sick baseball, they slack off when they come to America? I can't exactly remember the details, but that is the gist of it.

Taro's picture
Submitted by Taro on

I don't really get a Betancourt-type vibe from Chapman. Hes comes off as arrogant/cocky and apparently he wants to be the greatest pitcher in the world. Its possible he slacks off as soon as he makes some money, but I get the sense that he has more pride in his game than Betancourt.

jemanji's picture
Submitted by jemanji on

... if that's the right read on him ... will trump the tendency for Cubans to relax once they get here.

As many have noted, T.O.'s self-image actually helps him, from the standpoint of his own performance.  He might not make his teams better, but he personally performs well based on the way he sees himself.