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Moethedog, thanks for the link to history. It is hard to try to evaluate something that is sacred for baseball and floods your mind with memories of that day and that particular series. Yes, I am old but can’t remember watching Ty Cobb. Those were extremely good Tiger hitters that Gibson had looking lost at the plate. Isn’t it wonderful how baseball can be timeless at times?
 
If someone wants to compare a Cleto to someone like Gibson, even before you look at the delivery, look at the facial shots between the two. Gibson has the killer stare of a Nicklaus or Woods. Cleto looks so average, almost casual. And that shows then, imo, in the delivery.
 
Cleto has about 2 inches and 20-30 pounds on Gibson. With Cleto, as you said, it takes that strength to drive a bigger body with consistency every pitch. It is hard to tell from the camera angle but Cleto is more closed and thus has to throw over his body more. Gibson was quick with the hips but his balance was excellent and now a flop as Cleto is apt to. Gibson that year had the higher mound and look at where he releases the pitch. His drive to home puts that release several feet closer to home which is like adding approx 3mph to each pitch with later breaks.
 
Your man Moe was an amazing ball striker. Great to hear you bring up his name. Under appreciated through his life who is now finally getting a bit more recognition just because he was rare. Many didn’t like his body type or swing as it was not “pretty” like a Weiskopf. But that man knew how to hit a golf ball and repeat every action. Certainly Gibson was like that. Gibson could be criticized for his spin and fall off. Watch him through the ball and he was solid. Kind of like an Arnie who not only hitched his pants but also had the hitch in his follow through. The follow through didn’t matter as his strength through the hitting area and then the ball was long gone. I think Cleto could learn to tighten up his motion to help get rid of so much wasted movement that in time creates inconsistency. I read where people want to throw Cleto to the pen after this season and his wildness. Cleto is still only 21. Gibson did not pitch MLB until approximately 23. Give Cleto some coaching and time, let him mature and hopefully his talented arm will become a favorite topic here!
 
Good words Moethedog!