What we know about Dustin Ackley, after 3 games (part 2)

=== EYE and Pitch Recognition:  80 ===

Sabermetrically:  Ackley was leading the PCL in walks by a wide margin.  He had like 131 walks in 30 games, or thereabouts.

So nobody doubts the BB's.  Goody gumdrops.  Here's one part of his game that we don't have to argue about.

***

Still, from a scouting standpoint, here's the entry ....

::ahem::  It is pure baseball bliss to watch Ackley, ball nowhere near its destination, completely relax off a pitch that, much later, winds up 4 inches outside.   I'd watch a baseball game just to watch Dustin Ackley do that during a pitch.

Edgar used to do this.  Olerud did too, though not to the extent that Edgar and Ackley do.

Joe Morgan was probably the best I saw at this, relaxing off a pitch when it was still halfway to home plate.  I trust that you've enjoyed this visible pitch-recog skill during the opening series?

***

Ackley doesn't have to guess with the pitcher.  He simply reads the pitch coming in.

What in the world is going to happen, when he starts sensing the pitches ahead of time?  Edgar had the good EYE, right out of the gate.  But the day came, when Edgar knew what they were going to throw, and when that day came, he led the AL in runs created by 20...

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=== 65 SPD ===

Ackley's triple Sunday was rocked on one hop off the wall.  The RF gathered it in fairly quickly and got it back in.

I had the distinct impression that Ichiro would have pulled up at second base.  Didn't you?   ... Ackley turned on the afterburners and slid in farrrr ahead of the throw.

Early in Ichiro's career, he hit a two-hopper right at Derek Jeter, who fired to first... to get Ichiro by half a step.  The TV cut to a wide-eyed Jeter mouthing the word, "Wow."  

After that single play, you'd have said, "that batter is going to have a lot of infield singles."

And after Dustin Ackley's triple on Sunday, you'd say, "that batter is going to hit a lot of triples in Safeco."

***

Ackley does NOT appear to be able to read pitchers well enough to steal a bunch of bases.  Or maybe his first step is suspect (and therefore he won't have a bunch of infield hits).  I don't know.  It was just one weekend series ... :- )

But as far as scoring runs, once he is on base?  Going 1B-to-3B on a single, or scoring from 2B on a single, or from 1B on a double?  He'll be among the league leaders.

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=== 55 Defense ===

And that's being conservative.

Opening series, Ackley ranged farrrrr to his left, far to his right, turned the DP nimbly and with a strong arm.  ... and, as was pointed out to me in the comments, turned the DP with very light feet.

Ackley was labeled, from day one, as suspect at second.  The reality on the field is rather different.

***

Bill James pointed out that bad-character guys fail to work on their defense (Albert Belle types don't sweat D, because D doesn't show up in the stats).  Ackley hasn't seen the ground balls that some guys have, but he plans to out-work they hind ends.  He plans to compensate with technique, hustle, and naturally soft hands.

Bottom line?  I like Ackley on my infield.  If he weren't a hitter, I'd like having him at second.

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=== Franchise Player ===

Ackley will probably be the Mariners' best player in the second half of 2011.  It sounds odd to say, considering that Ichiro is a first-ballot HOF'er.

But considering the 18 swings he took against Oswalt, Hamels, and the Phillies, the things you saw him do, how do you project a slow start?

The M's offense shut down when their .400-OBP, 25-homer engine threw a piston rod.  On June 17, against the Phillies, they seem to have reclaimed The Edgar -- lefty and fast, this time.

***

So relax, LrKrBoi29.  :- )  You don't have to feel like you're selling out, to go nuts over Ackley.

Look at it this way:  Dustin Ackley was the college hitter of the decade, and Stephen Strasburg was in that draft, and the Mariners happened to be picking #2.  There's no miracle about it.  They had a Kevin Durant pick and they grabbed Durant.  :shrug:

***

Here's the question.  Which MLB player, contract included, do you trade Dustin Ackley for right now?  

Guys like Evan Longoria and Hanley Ramirez do not have as many club-controls years in front of them.  You trade Ackley for them?  Jason Heyward looks maybe a bit less predictable than Ackley to me.  You swap Ackley for Heyward, if the Braves call?

Is Dustin Ackley the most valuable commodity in baseball, or just one of them?

.

BABVA,

Jeff

Comments

1
Taro's picture

So psyched about this guy.
I wouldn't trade him for Heyward (a bit overhyped) or Hanley (not enough years left), or even Upton (great, but more expensive with less years). 
I'd probably trade him for Jose Bautista (mini-Bonds in a bargain 6-year deal), Mike Trout or Harper, maybe Longoria (its close).
I'm having a hard time coming up with anyone else. I don't think theres any question that Ackley is one of the top 10 most valuable properties in the game. Probably top 5.

3
ghost's picture

TINSTAPP...especially one with bad mechanics and a history of arm problems. :)
Ackley is WAAAAYYY more valuable than Strausburg to me.  Good thing we picked second in that draft.

4

Not yet the most valuable commodity in baseball.  Blamed close, though.
Several days ago, I suggested that Ackley's career over-under was Lou Whitaker. Sweet Lou tallied .280-.380-.460 type-numbers, over several seasons running.
Now it's worth considering if the Dustin Ackley over-uder line is Craig Biggio.  .300-.400-.480, over several seasons running.
Robinson Cano is a kind of .310-.360-.500 guy. 
Roberto Alomar was a .320-.400-.500 player, over several seasons running.
Biggio and Alomar as possible templates?  Heady stuff, indeed.  But worthy of consideration.
We've all imagined (except for Doc) Ackley as a leadoff or #2 hitter.  His template more and more indicates that he's a 3-hole guy. 
I love a lead-off hitter with HR pop.  But by this time next year (or earlier), Ackley's batting third.
Nice call, Doc.

5

I grew up with the Big Red Machine.  Little Joe hitting third, in front of several HR guys.
Morgan was OBP first, power second, and a fast guy.  So he was equally adept scoring runs or driving them in.  He would lead the league in OBP and finish 10th in SLG.
Short of Babe Ruth or Ty Cobb, that to me was the ideal engine to drive a high-performance offensive hot rod.  A guy who was constantly beating the pitcher (OBP).  And who added everything else in abundance.
***
Ackley, unless something goes wrong, gives the M's a great shot at a 21st-century Joe Morgan -- a dictionary-definition #3 hitter, playing middle infield.
(Ackley won't have the Gold Glove or the SB's, but 90% of Joe Morgan would be moderately acceptable on this blog.  Anybody offering 90% of Johnny Bench?)
So I guess I'll be much more comfortable with Ackley in the three hole than most amigos will.

6

But did anyone else notice that Eric Wedge had the faith to bat Greg Halman 5th already?  Not that Mr. Halman happened to shine today, but after, what, 2 weeks, Halman found his way to a primary position in the lineup based on his impressive showing so far (he was also not cowed yesterday).  What's the over/under on Ackley in the 2hole? 1 week?

7
Taro's picture

I argued a couple years back that I had no problems picking 2nd that year because Ackley wasn't as likely to implode.
Granted, Strasburg could come back from TJ and nuke baseball again. But I'll take my chances with Ackley. :-)

9

But after one (1) game, Drayer asked Wedge how Halman looked and Wedge positively raved, park-adjusted for Eric Wedge's personality of course...
Wedge legitimately seems to have a feel for how guys are swinging, and if we are dubious about Peguero on high pitches, perhaps Wedge is about to swing the pendulum over to Halman in that jobshare...
The thunderous performance in LF can't hurt...

10
Taro's picture

Ackley has such an extremely good eye that he could hit .280 and still run a .400 OBP.
If he even hits .280/.400/.420 with average defense at 2B, hes a star. If he does more than that?
I honestly would not be suprised if Ackley sprinkled a .300/.420/.470 type season out one of these years. He has that kind of potential.

12

Hanging out in the same dugout of two of the best basestealers in baseball (at least Chone Figgins was before this season), Ackley can't gradually learn to steal 20+ bases a year

13

Scott Boras texts him that 20 SB's mean extra dinero, during the FA glamor tour.
Boras' coffee-table hardback will have a popup insert page, or something ... ".400 OBP, 25 HR, 25 SB's:  A Historical Perspective."

14
paracorto's picture

when Ackley hit that rocket vs LHP Hamels behind two strikes. It was a hard exam and was really impressive. What most astonishing is that in three games he did not miss a single contact with the ball. Perhaps you're right and we're in front of somebody very special. If he's for real a hitter like that could represent a big difference for our playoff hopes, not to mention what his career could be and his value on the market. I would not trade him for nobody else at present - only for Buster Posey perhaps... or even better, why could not we have both ???

15

Got my first look at Ackley this weekend. Now I'm not a big follower of MiLB. I follow MaLB. I let Jack and experts such as those on forums like this do the spadework and familiarize myself with what they say only to the extent it directly impacts the big club.
So here's my reaction upon seeing his game:
WHAT
A
REVELATION!
Now I know what all the fuss is about. This guy just exhudes confident baseball talent. Just like Felix and Pineda, he's very, very good and HE KNOWS IT.
You don't get this "on the edge" feeling you get with many, if not most MLBers, that they are desperately working hard just to keep their head above water...and these are the best of the best in the world. Here comes a rookie, all the pressure of the highly public expectations focused on him, and he just goes out there and does what he does as if...as if, what... as if he is only doing what he expects of himself. He's not just trying to succeed (Michael Saunders), he EXPECTS big time success.
Effortlessness.
Competence.
Cornerstone? You bet.
Rookie struggles and adjustments ahead? OK, maybe, but he has all the tools to deal with it, hands down, AND HE KNOWS IT!
You don't know a player until you've seen him. I've seen enough. Welcome to Seattle, Mr. Ackley. And Howard, when are you going to lock him up in Seattle for ten years?

16

More importantly, to my way of thinking, is there a better group of 25 or younger that you would rather have your franchise start with?
Felix, Ackley, Pineda and Smoak.  Washington might have a group that could compete but the M's players are doing it in the bigs.   Kansas City has bulk on their side but most are still down on the farm.

17
ghost's picture

And a second tier group of young, interesting, MLB-ready or near-ready guys including Halman, Carp, Liddi, Peguero, Fister, Vargas...yowch this team has gotten young and good AND QUICK! :)

18

I followed Ackley at UNC.
 
I watched Ackley last year in AA.
 
I will continue to say what I said when he was drafted.  His upside is Brian Giles, (I don't care if Giles was on 'roids or not).  Or, maybe Bobby Abreu.  Giles' peak was more impressive, and crash more violent, but Abreu and Giles are the guys I think Ackley most readily compares to.  Too early to tell where Ackley's eye ends up against MLBers.  But, because Ackley wasn't a big base stealer in college, people have drastically underestimated his speed.  And because he didn't swat 20 HRs in his first 1/2 season of AA, people continue to underestimate his power.  If he were a switch hitter, I'd comp him to Chipper. 
 
My 'restraint' has always been directed at the idea that Ackley is not likely to sacrifice average for power.  AFTER he proves he can hit .300 in the Bigs ... then he'll start getting situational on their butts.  Note, however, he is more Pujols than Dunn.  He's not a pitch-stalker in terms of looking for something to Jack.  He's a student - learning something with every pitch - and computing how to best damage you on the next one.  His eyes are the super-duper-fast-zoom cameras they use on CSI. 
 
There is always some danger that a prospect cannot make that final leap in talent level.  While highly unlikely with Ackley ... it is not zero.  But, the 'tools' are there for a .300/30/30 guy.  (And with Ichiro around, I would expect him to be adding a solid SB game somewhere along the way).

19
Forsyth baseball's picture

First off let me say that I am glad you guys are so high on Dustin. Coming from his hometown of Winston-Salem/King area, I have watched Dustin many times. Hey I bought a car from his cousin Jordan a few years back.His family is great and he has always been a class act. I am a police officer here and I can promise you that the Ackley name has never come up in any kind of way and that includes traffic tickets. I doubt he will ever be in any type trouble and that includes the DUI's and usual traffic BS. He will always be a hard worker of that you can be sure.
As for the baseball side of things, he has one of the most keen eyes I have ever seen. Someone above referenced SWEET LOU, while I think thats great since I used to live in Detroit and love my tigers, I dont see that one coming to fruition. Lou was defense first and was not at all an early student of the offensive game. His offense took years to come around.
I love the Giles comparison and have often compared Dusty to that. He has the same type of power and will likely finish most years hitting 15-20ish Hrs. Only difference is he has a much better eye then Giles. I agree about how Dusty has the ability to read pitches and not guess at whats coming which will mean he strikesout very little. Dusty doesnt get cheated and because of that I think Dusty can put up Uggla type numbers without the uglyness of Uggla's swings. This is not to say that I think Dusty is going to be this great power hitter, but more of a guy who can go above a projected Hr total because he can read pitches better than most. His power(HR) total numbers will usually depend on if he the pitch can be driven out. I would love for Dusty to hit around 300 but think realistically 290ish with a 400OBP is more likely. I think when its said and done though, he will have credentials for a HOF type career for a 2b if he stays there.
And as for Dustys fielding. I dont think he is agile enough to be that headturning type of 2b. But he is adept enoug and hardworking enough that balls he should get to, he will get to. Just dont look for that crazy play up the middle that you see a lot of these dominican 2b/SS players make. Its not his style and probably will never be.

20

Not the half-terrified, half-cocky social veneer ... but the simple recognition that they are better than the veterans they are facing...
Michael Pineda had this in spring training *2010* ...
Was listening to Daren Brown on KIRO-710's podcast backlog.  He remarked that Ackley is a nice kid, just doesn't talk much ... when Brown sort of pulled his Big Announcment HEY KID!  YOU'RE GOING TO THE SHOW!
Brown said Ackley was just like, shrug, all right, fine.
***
One thing we didn't put in the series above:  Ackley had a 36-game errorless streak broken just before he came up.  
Defensively, Ackley may be a very RELIABLE, mistake-free defender.  There's a lot to be said for that.

21

Any second baseman who could post a Bobby Abreu batting line, for 12-15 years, would easily make baseball's Hall of Fame.
Maybe we need G-Money to put up one of his "Here's who's playing 2B in the majors" lists.
***
Ya San-Man, you've had a good look at Ackley.  Keep it comin' amigo.

22

If you didn't catch Forsyth's comments above, don't miss 'em.
And thanks for letting us off with a warning, officer!  Have a good afternoon now... we'll buckle up ...
 

23
Stokes  Baseball's picture

I went to the same high school as Dustin and played in the same program. We trained during the off-season by running indoor track. Dustin has sneaky speed. He has more range than you think at second. Its only a matter of him developing better instincts at the position and judging balls off of the wood bat. He was easily the fastest guy during the winter and made it look easy against other superb athletes.

24

Always love hearing from a guy's high school teammates...
Of course any MLB'er up to and including Carlos Peguero is going to get raves from his fellow high-schoolers for speed, basketball-dunking ability, etc...
But that last bit about dominating other HS elites with his legs, that's the money quote ... thanks man ...
***
The more you watch Ackley, the more you realize that he has certain physical gifts, even relative to other MLB stars ... e.g. after game 4, we realized why it is, that he's able to swing both longer and quicker than other ML hitting stars...

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