Spec Sez:
A semi-encouraging outing for Maikel Cleto, who has struggled. Cleto went 3.0 IP with 0 R, 1 H and 4 K. But 4 BB. No radar gun data from this outing, but in his first outing his FB was consistently 96+, peaking at 99, and curveball 81. So there's a lot of potential there if they can figure out what to do with it. The AFL is his first shot above A-ball, where he struggled at High Desert, so this is all work-in-progress stuff.
Work in progress indeed, and there's nothing wrong with that.
SSI is constantly bemused by the development arcs of prospects' hype sheets. :- ) Take Michael Pineda, for instance. Back up just 12 months -- hey, 6 months -- and you'll find Pineda listed 3rd, 4th, 5th in the M's own org. Among pitchers.
Yet the Mariners (and rival scouts) knew that Pineda was an oncoming ML freight train back in 2008.
A lot of blogging has got to have the M's shot-callers chipping their teeth ... take SSI's March '010 wailing and gnashing of teeth on Snell and Kotchman, for example.
But on the other hand, they must derive great solace from watching it slowly dawn on us, over a period of like two years, who the best prospects are.
.
=== HQ Dept. ===
As you know, Jack Zduriencik selected Cleto as part of his J.J. Putz haul. He got fully six (6) important players with Franklin Gutierrez:
Boggles my mind, the free throw percentage here. And Gutierrez was the key to the deal!
Anyway, before 2010, BaseballHQ had only three pitchers in Seattle's top 15. Michael Pineda, Maikel Cleto, and Daniel Cortes.
.................
They had Cleto as a legit 91-97 pitcher with an "electric" arm who, a year ago, telegraphed his changeup badly.
HQ also reported that Cleto gets excellent tight-spin and swerve on his fastball, like a young Felix, getting lots of GB's with it. Projection: #3 starter in the big leagues, beginning 2012.
.
=== State of the Clate ===
So if Cleto is sitting 96 and hitting 99, sure, he is justifying his scouting fans. The walks, as such, are little more than an annoyance, at the state he's at.
The day arrives when he leaps forward with his release point, and da danga da danga da dang, an "overnight success" and an impact starter.
Fans will want to wait for the terrific peripherals to kick in. But the boyz in the know, notably HQ and Jack Zduriencik, are tellin' us now. Cleto's on the yellow sticky note, side of the monitor.
.
Thanks Spec,
Dr D
Might be my imagination but quickly checking box scores from Cleto in Fall shows a consistent tough first inning, lots of pitches with most of those being balls. Then it would seem he would settle in. I might be completely wrong in slight observation but that is not an issue of talent but between the ears. Thankfully, as you said Jeff, time to grow there.
the slow start sometimes being a question of dubious technique? As he struggles to replace technique with feel?
Your thoughts, coach?
If I had the answer to that one I might be worth my weight in something. Good question. So many varibles. If the bad start and then getting settled was a pattern, good coaching should help solve parts of that. Plus better off speed in the year ahead. I have heard he has some kind of curve ball. I can't say of Cleto but I can't figure for the life of my why more young pitchers seem like they have never thrown a change up. Lots of HS pitchers want fastball/curve combo because metal bats can make a change up look like a slow fastball. But a good change up is effective in any league. Plus, bats all changing so like going back to the good old wooden spoon.
Pitching is like golf. Mechanical is necessary as the mental. Lots of guys in both sports have different comfort zones. It always amazed me how a guy would get off to a bad start for the first five holes then he just try to complete the nine (as if the scores from hole 6-9 are lees important). Now on the 10th tee he wants to play well the second nine. And often that happens. There is no pressure as the round has been lost so suddenly he is free to hit good shots. Or some people turn it on from behind but then turn into jello once they get a lead. Hopefully for Cleto, a 21 in AAA can see his mind match his arm and really learn to pitch.
Sorry for the large amount of words!!!! Hope that you are doing great!
Guys who type in a large amount of words.
Smaller font?
was a self-satire :- )
.............
IMHO, more words require --- > larger fonts and more white space.
Since you seem to be a guy without pet peeves, kind of figured that one. Well, pet peeves besides mishandling a baseball game! Your balance on here is refreshing...thanks!
is glad-handing.
You're already on the traveling squad, man.
Hey Jeff: Felix or Lincecum? Quick.
Cy Youngs aside, I have to go with King Felix. He is a rare one. Enjoy!!!
You all?
Okay, last year after Lincecum's 2nd CY, I told my boys that if I were a GM, in 5 years I think I would rather have Cain than Lincecum. High altitude taking a toll on the brain aside, this season in a couple of games against the Rockies Lincecum was very human. I know he is a pitcher now more than a thrower and his curve/split is lethal. But early this season against the Rockies his velocity was much more inconsistent than prior years. I will stick to that for now. And hope I look like a fool.
High altitude taking a toll on the brain aside
Heh :- )
But early this season against the Rockies his velocity was much more inconsistent than prior years.
Yep. After 5-odd years, it's clear that Felix is a Clemens-type horse whose stuff figures to hold up for two decades. Lincecum's career arc is much more suspect.
If Lincecum delivers the Giants a Sandy Koufax-type career, 5-6 years of uber-brilliance, he'll of course have been worth a #1 overall. But he's not a guy I'd bet on to strike out 4,000 men.
Our man Cleto has not pitched for a while. I was going to ask you if there had been any injury report. All must be good as he gets the ball today. Ackley must get to play golf.
So I checked out his first inning as I had mentioned in the Fall league he had terrible starts. MLB was not giving speed or break so only giving dark snap shot but first six pitches all balls. Walked the first two. Ended up giving up 3 runs, all earned. 21 pitches for the inning with only 9 strikes. Weak offspeed can make a good fastball look bad fast even at the HS level.
Cleto gets hit WAY too much. I thought he was gonna be more like Soriano with an overpowering fastball that could carry him even with indifferent breaking stuff. He throws smoke, but he got pounded in the Cal League (which did not happen to Rafael) and is getting hit around in the AFL too.
I can't help but wonder if this is some sort of mechanics deal instead of a stuff deal. Is he giving away FB vs off-speed with his arm slot or something? Because he's obviously not surprising anyone or getting the ball by them very easily.
Makes me curious.
~G
But this result might require a downgrading of his stock. Or at least a moving back of his timetable.
As you say, G, he's starting to string some lame results, of which the AFL is a rather alarming one.
Here's where the pitching coaches are supposed to earn their dinero.
Cleto started off with another double bogey. Walks the first two. Typcial for his first innings. Then he did great in the 2nd frame. Give the guy a mulligan for his confidence!
The guy was supposed to have amazing talent and you don't throw high 90's without such. Hopefully this next year he will mature and whether it is arm-slot, pitch plane...he will have some quality offspeed so the kids can't sit on his fastball.
Cliff Lee was not always "Cliff Lee." Cleto is still young. On the other hand, the old guy (who could be my son) Wilhelmsen came in and threw 10 pitches/7 strikes with 2 K's for a hitless inning.
Nice snuff in the paint.
AFL normally doesn't mean much FOR HITTERS because most of the great pitching prospects don't go, and the desert air is hitter-friendly.
Wilhelmsen and Lueke tearing the league limb from limb does mean something. Cleto struggling again as he did in the Cal League means something too.
I would slow him down, yes. Find him a pitching coach outside of the desert and let him work. If he can't start, he should be a very good bullpenner, but I'd keep letting him start for at least two years. We've got plenty of bullpen arms working their way up right now. He's got time.
But the hits have to come down. There's NO reason a guy who throws that hard should get hit around the park by every Tom, Dick and Harry that comes along.
Right now he reminds me of Putz as a starter - lots of heat, not a lot else, and his hits and Ks were not representative at all of what they would be from the pen once he found a workable breaking pitch.
So I have to adjust my expectations from the unhittable Soriano to the decently hittable Putz and wait for a coach to be able to get Cleto's slider or changeup functional.
It's all in the expectations. ;)
~G
Jeff or anyone, here is a few pitches from Cleto earlier in the year. He is reported to have a good arm but I can't say the same for his form. At least to me, very lazy and inconsistent in the few pitches shown. I hope that a whole year at a higher level will see some maturity and tweaking.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrjA5i_i8rA
Enjoy your Friday everyone!
Lazy's a good word for it, which is the same problem *I* have throwing baseballs and footballs. Cleto does several of the same bad things I do.
In fact, his mechanics echo mine, which is decidedly not a compliment, considering he's a pro athlete. Difference is, he does look like he's got *real* long arms.
try and do a post shortly; here is one dude who needs to learn to sink his weight so that it tracks forward a little.
I fight that in High School kids wanting to imitate MLBers. Cleto should be duct taped this winter in front of a tv and be sentenced for all those walks a minimum of 1000 hours of watching Cliff Lee. What an efficient/effective delivery.
Enjoy the weekend!
He goes to 2-0 but he still stunk! Oh well, he is young! Hopefully he can learn! Ackley only got one hit but three walks & an error. And Lueke gets another shutout 9th.
Jeff, I want to see any video him in the spring but speaking of the lazy delivery, I don't like how he stands so tall (at least of what I saw) rather than driving earlier and quicker with the hips to home. I hope that makes some sense.
Please quit sending us your weather!!