Matt Tuiasosopo, 2b ?

=== Shields ===

He looked mighty adequate out there tonight.  Sweet.

..........

:- ) Like ice cream.

As we all know, a legit ML second base is an awfully high bar to set for Tui, and whether he could reproduce Jose Lopez' range factors .... I'd want to see him for thirty games at least.

What IS intriguing is that the Mariners have him there, no?

The scramble-and-dive up the middle:  you know and I know that Jose Lopez does not get to that ball.  Jack Wilson probably would have.   What I liked was the full-body extension, the rrrrrreeeeeeeeeach to snare it in the webbing, and then the martial-arts popup in an eyeblink to throw the runner out from CF.

The power arm can play deeper -- and that extends the range right there.  Thursday's dazzler was a case in point.  That's not a play you make if you're not deep, or if you're lacking a SS's arm (as Lopez also has, of course).

............

I don't know if anybody agrees with me, but I take it as a necessary inference now that Tui would be fine at third base.

.............

Still trying to wrap the mind around Tui at 2B.  He looks like Adrian Beltre, or Troy Glaus, or Johnny Bench, playing second.   I can't think of another player, ever, who had that kind of chest at second base.  

No, I guess Bret Boone in his Mariners incarnation, right?   Boone was as big then as Tui will be, although shorter.

If Tui sticks at second, Bret Boone becomes his automatic comp -- body type, K/BB, power, power to right field, everything.   Maybe he'll start referring to himself as The Tui?

.

=== The Double ===

Tui's double to deep-center was off a very high fastball, very outside black, and the swing reminded me of my boyhood hero Johnny Bench.  Very compact, very physically powerful, nice opening up and extension.

It was nice to see the plate coverage:  in addition to the high-away double, Matt Thornton came in and blitzed Tui with 97 jam pitches right on the hands and Tui whipped the bat around like a snake's tongue to foul them off.

Just one game, but hey, it's just one post.  :- )

.

=== Geoff Baker ===

... reminds us, at the Times, that Tuiasosopo was drafted as a SS.  In fact he played there, in four different leagues, before moving to 3b.

The groupthink against Tui's infield play was so persistent, so ever-present, that I'm thoroughly ashamed to say that I'd completely FORGOTTEN that Tui was drafted as a shortstop.

The arguments against Tui-SS are very easy to make, cliche'd even, and were exactly the same arguments that Weaver faced re: Cal Ripken thirty years ago.  

.................

But suppose you toss out the assumptions, and you start with a blank sheet of paper, re: Tui's defense?  What then?

It'll be a lot of fun to actually WATCH Matt Tuiasosopo if he can get into some games.  He sure was fun to watch tonight.
  :- )

Cheers,

Dr D

 


Comments

1

Here's the video of his play: http://seattle.mariners.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?content_id=6705769
Here's the article in which mlb.com manages to state "they still see him as a 3b" about four times in five paragraphs: http://seattle.mariners.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090917&content_id...
Regardless, the fact that this is not just a AAA experiment, but they are actually sticking him there in MLB games, is just another amazing move by Jack & posse.
It also strengthens my view that they will view Lopez as a Putz-like trade chip (impressive stats, bad fit for what they're trying to accomplish), but that's probably just me over-interpreting.

2
shields's picture

I don't think you're over-interpretting.
The problem with trading Lopez this offseason is that the free agent market offers a few decent 2B.  Hudson, Polanco, DeRosa, Kennedy, F Lopez, and a few interesting fringey guys.  You could even consider our good buddy Chone in that group.  I'm not sure a team 'over'pays for Lopez with that kind of depth on the FA market.

3

Hadn't noticed the stream of 2B's out there... agreed, when there are options available, it's not going to be as likely to see crazy offers come in...
The one good thing is, on the FA market there aren't likely to be 2b's worth $10-15m per year, accepting $5m per ...
For those small-market teams on a serious budget, who see Jose as liable to step forward from his .270-25-100, Jose could be a marquee player by their standards...

4

... that last sentence, in the MLB.com article, I translate as Wok saying "We know he's physically gifted enough to play 2B, 3B, [and maybe shortstop]."   The context isn't position switches to the OF.
It sounds like we've learned that Tui is (as of now anyway) a 2B-3B for the Mariners, as Lopez was when he came up.
Lopez also played significant time at SS in the bigs, though Tui has pretty clearly been targeted for positions other than short. 

6
OBF's picture

Sigh....   I just lost an SSI comment to the ether for the first time :(  It was a doosey too.
Oh well, it was too rambly anyways.  Here was the jist of it:
 
That diving play was very much a 3B play, one quick step and then a dive to the right to steal a double down the line.  Adrian makes that play in his sleep, whether at 3rd or 2nd.  Of course I think you could stick AB at SS and get ABOVE average defense out of him, the dude is an athletic freak.  Of course comping Tui to him is a COMPLIMENT :)
With that said I was VERY impressed by Tui at 2nd!
DO NOT TRADE JOSE LOPEZ!  It would be a monumental mistake!
3 quick reasons why:
We have 3 big time question marks around the infield, SS, 3B and 1B (with the back and the declining stats Russel the muscle is no longer a sure thing), so why are we going to trade away our one sure thing in the infield again?  Jlo HAS a place in this infield whether at 1B (YUCK!), 2B (good) or 3B (also good).  We can not afford to trade him away!
Yup, Seattle has 25 HR MIF falling out our ears, so lets just trade away our latest one ... NOT!  If we were talking about reclaimed closers then sure, lets give him the Putz, but when was the last time the M's developed a 25 HR player, not just RH MIF, any handedness, any position?  You have to go all the way back to AROD!  That was FIFETEEN years ago (13 if you are talking about his first 25+ HR season).  And no Ibanez does NOT count, he was an FA.
Jlo is even a VORP/$ star, he IS the Star making Scrub money that is the gas that makes the stars and scrubs engine go!  You need to keep those guys, not trade them!
A fourth just for fun.  He still has upside left!!!  Seriously, why does everyone want to trade away one of our best players?  Moreover, why does no one REALISE that he is one of or best players?  People fall all over themseves trying to point out how great Gutz is, and no one would think of trading him, so why the non-man crush for JLo?  I got your back Lopey!

I don't remeber now if that was all of my first post, oh well, close enough!  Yay for Fridays!  Go M's, and Go Beavs!!!
 

8
OBF's picture

The only person in the whole article that said they saw Tui's future being at 3B was teh author himself.  It sure looked like Wak's comments were (paraphrased), "He has the athletisism to play defense anyway where on the diamond, we are mostly concerned with seeing how he progresses with the bat".
It sounds very similar to the teams current view of "The Condor" Saunders.  It is obvious to the M's (and us) that Michael can play any of the OF spots at a very high level defensivly, the question is whether he will make the offensive adjustments to stay in the bigs at all.
Right now Wak isn;t worried much about Tui's defense, he is wonder if he has a AAAA bat, a bench bat, a 6th hitters bat or a Bit time bat, Lets hope he has that run of 35 HR years just waiting for us all to enjoy :)

9
OBF's picture

JLo at 3B Tui at 2nd vs. Tui at 3B and JLo at 2nd is tamAYto, tomAHto for me.  In fact I see them as being very similar players, average defense (at either 3B or 2B for both) with more power than patience.  Of course seeing as how I think Lopey is a Franchise player, everyone should be able to guess where I rank Tui in the system as well :)  Although I would be even more enthused about him if he HAD JUST HIT 25 HR IN THE MAJOR LEAGUES.
That is the thing I truly don;t understand about the Lopez issue, here is a guy that has actually, physically hit 25 HR in a season, not theoretical HRs, not upside HRs, not maybe if he closes his stance a bit and gets moved to a smaller park HRS, REAL major league, run changing HRs and they get dismessed like he is still just swatting 8 a year!  People want to punt him for..WHO exactly, the OTHER 25 HR 2B we have?  Just boggles my mind.
To be honest I think I would rather have Lopey stick at 2B (and Tui at 3rd) for the next 10 years just so all the non Lopez supporters have to have it stick in their craw for his next 10 All star appearances :p

10

The nonenthusiasm for Lopez is pretty much just the residue of the naysaying against him earlier, I'd think...
As a resource he's not far off what Gutierrez is:  average-solid bat, key defensive position, way underpaid ... Guti outranks him on D and salary, but Lopez looks like the offensive bustout could be imminent...

11

Hall, if you hadn't noticed, is having a good time with the Ms...hitting for some good pop and playing good D where you put him.  He could be the 3B 60% of the time and Hannahan 40% and you'd lose zero groud from what Beltre did this year.
I'd prefer to keep Hall as the super-DUPER-sub getting 400 ABs at 6 different positions...but the fact that we have Hall, Lopez, Hannahan, Tui and Wilson all capable of playing multiple positions...makes Z's job a lot easier.

13
glmuskie's picture

thanks for the link shields...  I hadn't seen the play, just heard it on the talking box.  What amazes me is how FAST he goes from horizontal to feet set - firing the ball to 1B. 
You see that and you can see why they're thinking 3B with him...

14

.230/.300/.400
Ideally anyway.  He's hitting into bad luck on balls in play this year despite the huge K rate and K/BB...he's got a problem making contact...just not that talented at squaring up the ball.  He's the TTO McLemore instead of the slap-happy McLemore.  Very valuable guy to have in the supersub role despite his lack of bat control and extreme streakiness.
I wouldn't play him too much at Safeco unless you feel you need his arm in the outfield (which is a big step better than Saunders' arm and probably bnetter than Ackley's arm too) for a given pitcher.  I would focus his ABs on lefties and fastball-first righties and give other UT IF at bats to Hannahan (who is more of a slider/change-up hitter and would hit control righties better than Hall does).
But then...I'm of the minority (apparently) opinion here that we should keep Lopez and Tui and sign a free agent shortstop even if it's someoe not very good with the bat...I'm no longer comfortable with Jack Wilson defensively...rangy and thletic, he definitely is...but elite gold glover?  Not so much.  I'd like to tsee the team find another way to plug that hole.
I'd also like to see the team sign Bedard and one other power lefty in the off-season to solidify the rotation, so I'm against spending the 10 mil on Wilson and if we have to plug SS, we don't have enough money to plug 2B/3B after trading Lopez.  All of which makes me want to hold onto my assets on the infield as much as possible.  Carp looks like he can put a good solid season up too...I hope there is a roster spot available for him next year.

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