Seattle Sports Insider

Span sprints all the way to Seattle

Dang it all to heck!

Posted by

5/25/18

MLB Trade Rumors has the scoop:

M's acquire Denard Span. We send Andrew Moore and farm lefty Tommy Romero to Tampa Bay.

Go back one thread and you will find something that I posted jsut this morning about a potential Span trade. It reads exactly like this:

Span is still a decent 100-ish bat, although this year it is driven by a huge number of walks that might be unsustainable. He's mostly squishy with the glove in CF AND he would cost you a $4M buyout next season. Again, we have farm guys for stuff like this.

I will have this to say and then sort of stop: I hate this deal. Hatehatehatehate

Romero isn't bad. He might be pretty good. (1.12 WHIP, 10.8 K/9, 3.1 BB in 2 low minor seasons. He has allowed ONE homer in 87.1 innings). You know what I think about Moore (he's good). Heck, Romero could turn out to be ther better arm. Reminder: Moore is good. And you can see what I wrote about Span, just this morning (see above).

This has to mean that Gordon is out for longer than we want. Well, for goodness sakes then, just go get a 2B then.

Span hit .302 and .301 in '14 & '15. Since then it's been .266, .272 and now .238. He's completely in LF this season, as TB as given up on him in CF. His vR OPS has been .781, .802 and .722 over the last three seasons.

Don't like it. And this is a sort of un-Gamel move. Yet Gamel has been .748 and (an improving) .636 vR in two seasons. Over the last 28, 14 and 7 days his OPS has looked like this: .768, .785, .886. He's back in the groove after the long time off.

If this is just a "replace Gordon" move it is a panic-job. Heck, Andreoli might well be a .750 bat. If this means that Haniger is more injured that once thought......then we're in doo doo, anyway. (Late Edit: Haniger is in the lineup today, so that isn't it)

We gave up two young promising arms to get 1 year of a declining OF, and then a $4M buyout next season (no way we pay him $12M to be a 4th guy).

If there is another trade in the works.....Somebody for Gennett, for example...then it makes a bit more sense. But that means it makes 2% of sense.

We even get Alex Colome (really the major object of our desire) a pretty decent to dang good bullpen arm, (but arbing at $7-8M next season) and I still don't like it. Admittedly, I should have Colome in the thread title.......but I like him and that might ruin my cranky mood.

Will say this, Dipoto went big early. All the same: Bleh!

Your mileage may vary. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Icky Icky!!!!

Moe

Comments

Thoughts

I dislike losing Moore but don't hate it IN THE RIGHT DEAL. IMO if we're all-in, Jerry's going to acquire a club-controlled BETTER SP. Call it an SP core of Pax/Gonz/Newbie, with Leake and Felix bringing up the rear for now, and Erasmo in the wings. Moore's not coming into play this year. Maybe not next year either; certainly not to displace one of the top 3 or (sigh) Felix.

Colome is a homerun. Sugar, Colome, Cook, and lots of really solid pieces after that. What a bullpen!

Span over Gamel I don't like. I really, really don't like taking Gamel out of the rhythm he's establishing. That said he's a decent piece, and we'll see how much the OBP fades... but I do notice Jerry's CtheZ in full effect as BB outpaces Ks here so far this year. I don't hate the player, but I don't love him either. If injury hits NOW, we have enough starters to keep going... and I do maintain that 2019 we may see the M's consider a Cano to DH move (in a post-suspension context) if the management doesn't fall in love with Vogelbach in short order. So if Dee is out of the outfield rotation essentially for the rest of the season but also for the future, Span at least gives you another option in 2019.

Emphasis

I dunno if I like the deal either Moe, but I think you're selling it short. I agree, Span looks pretty "meh." He's always had a decent EYE, but certainly not this good. If the contact skills have slipped then maybe he's weaponized the EYE to cover, but that obviously can't be sustainable. However, it could work for a decent amount of *this* season, which is all we really care about anyway.

Strategically speaking, we did need another outfielder. Why, when you have Haniger/Heredia/Gamel/*Gordon? Because the playoffs exist, and are clearly our goal this year. Dee will need to play second then, and we'll need outfield depth in his absence. Gamel is a question mark, Heredia could be overperforming, Andreoli has been a ~.780 OPS bat in AAA and is probably a .700 in the majors if he sticks at all. We keep taking draws at the 3 to make 2 deck in LF and CF (see Suzuki, Ichiro), and this one is likely to stick. Also injuries. Never expect the Mariners to stay healthy.

Really though, the main point that you're overlooking by giving him nothing more than a throwaway line at the end is that Alex Colome is GOOD. This is their CLOSER, you realize. All Star in 2016, led the league in saves last year, 84 saves the last two years combined. His ERA is bad this year (well, its at 4.15) but you know what isn't? His FIP, still down at 2.69, LOWER than either of his previous seasons. His Ks (9.6) and BBs (3.3) are still at career norms: the only problem is his BABIP shot up to .354 after sitting at .280 the last two years. Moreover, the regression has already begun: in his last 17 appearances, opponents are hitting .194 and his ERA is 2.14. Bottom line, this man is instantly our second best reliever, and probably by a decent margin. He's a legit closer, or a Yankees level setup man. That bumps Nicasio out of the role, and allows for an eventual hot bullpen of Sugar/Colome/Cook/Pazos/Altavilla/Nicasio* throwing flames down the stretch.

So yeah, losing Andrew Moore hurts. I didn't like him nearly as much as some of y'all did, but he had his strengths and he was one of our best remaining pitching prospects. BUT. We turned him into a useful outfielder with a highly consistent track record, and another team's Closer who we have under control through 2020. The way I see it, we paid a medium price for some much needed OF depth, and a massive bullpen upgrade which we get before the feeding frenzy of the trade deadline. Seems like a reasonable deal to me.

Thanks Sherm

I know, it should have been about Colome, but my dander was up and I couldn't quite go there. Here is Dipoto buiding the modern pitching staff: 3-4 BP guys going 1 inning. I know, I see that. Colome is pretty good. Better than that, even.

LL suggests that next year's buy out of Span, $4M in cash, will come in the deal. That would leave us with current cash to spend on an arm, if need be. Span is OPSing .857 vL. That isn't staying. In 4 of the past 5 seasons he has OPSed vL .576 OR LOWER. In '14 he rocketed to .694. That .857 blots out the .722 he's swinging vR. OK, his BABIP is low, but his BB rate is about to nosedive.

Is Span likely better than Gamel? That's a pick 'em. Is he likely better than Andreoli? Probably. Ian Miller, too. But by how much and at what cost?

Either way you look at it, you gave up a promising young arm for a 100 game rental, mediocre OF. that I do not like.

One for one, Moore for Colome? Probably I'm good. If the Rays insisted on Span in the deal, we should have shopped elsewhere.

But he's here. He's ours. I once quite liked him. Will root for him again.

Doesn't mean I like the total deal.

But you were right. I should have lead with colome and then whined about the throw-in.

Perspective is such a funny thing...

I feel you Moe, I really do. I am a HUGE Andrew Moore Fan, seeing as how I am a bigger Beaver honk than a Mariner fan...

The thing is, I has seen this pimply faced kid go from an 18 year old fooling seniors with a 87mph FB and a bit of command to looking.... OK.... in the majors, and the hang up the whole time is that Moore is... good... And unfortunately in the majors EVERYONE is good. More has good velocity (93 tops, but only 90-91 if he wantsto commandit, which is essential for his game) He is has good command. He has good mound presense and moxie. He has 3 or 4 good pitches. Notice the absense of the words very or great everywhere in the last paragraph. Moore is going to have to find something great if he ever wants to make an impact in the majors. It could happen. If it does it willlikely bea plateau jump in command. But until then he is looking to be a BOR and not much more. Again, I love the kid! And from a sentemental pov it sucks to see him move to a different org, but he wasn't the grade A trade piece or prospect in my eyes as he seems to be in your, looks like other GMs including his own feel similarly.

My honest first thought when seeing the trade: "WOW! Andrew Moore and a random A lvl pull at the picther deck got us Colome! He's their closer!"

I hadn't even realized Span was a part of the deal and I thought we had won it :) :) :)

Gamel is having a nice little stretch... but come one,Span(even at his advanced age) >>> Gamel or Antonelli or whoever else we can pull up from the minors...

Why do you say Spans BB rate will drop off a cliff? He has always had pretty good patience, and it's the exact "Old player skill" you would expect him to be perfecting as his fast twitch muscles start to fall off a bit and he can no longer find extra bases with his wheels and quick reflexes...

Span's BB's

Span has BB'ed 66 pts over his career, it's 126 pts right now. He's only been beaned once this season so that isn't driving it. Since 2010 he's walked 67 pts, 64 pts, 59 pts, 48, 53, 64, 65 and 59. His Eye hasn't improved dramaticaly at age 34.

As I said originally, he's a 100-ish OPS + guy with a - CF glove and a fair to middling LF glove, and there is value there. I used to be a big fan. He used to hit .300.

Dipoto spoke of the trade on the broadcast last night. It was always the plan to go get them both (because it could be done in one smooth deal), some Mariner FO guy had first pitched it as the suits had decided the most efficient way to upgrade was in the OF and in the pen, the Rays were interested and it took 4 days to put close.

I wrote a couple of days ago that the M's had arm assets to make an addition. I was writing about 2B then and said unless it was Gennett then I wasn't interested in Moore going away. ANd I agree that Colome is a plus two-season get. Said above that I could see Moore going for him.

In a vacuum, Romero for a Span rental might make sense. It might if I had more confidence in Span and if there weren't other ways to skin that cat. When Span has hit .300 and played CF he's been a really good ballplayer. Capital R and capital G. As a .250 hitter in LF, I am not interested. This team doesn't need veteran leadership, we have it in spades. But the two young arms lost in this deal makes me sad. We can get .250 and his glove from Andreoli or Ian Miller.

Agreed that Moore isn't an ace. But he's going to be a solid and cheap #3/4 soon enough.

But here I am again, rooting for Span. You go, old guy.

No we can't.

Andreoli has a prohibitively high K rate throughout his minor league career...I know he has a fun game on Wednesday, but he's a scrub .220 hitter. Ian Miller isn't even close to polished enough to call up yet.

I don't blame Dipoto for grabbing some stoploss along with his top-level setup man. And everyone, including you, has been aching about Nicasio and Vincent in the eighth. We're going to need to win a lot of close games, especially without Cano. Getting a guy like Colome was an absolute MUST. And if it means taking on some salary with our outfield depth addition to gain stoploss and prevent the line-up from filling with black holes, I'm fine with that.

You guys know an elite reliever is involved right?

It would be impossible for me to disagree any more than I do.

This is a great move...Moore can't throw anything useful offspeed and is still giving up homers left and right...in double a. He's a five year project with limited upside. In exchange we get two years of an elite setup man and a useful fourth outfielder.

Seriously...I'm at a loss here.

I'm with SABR Matt on this one

Much as I hate Trader Jerry's propensity to deal from the Farm... we just got last year's MLB saves leader to handle the 8th inning for us through at least 2019, plus a decent outfielder who is now 3rd or 4th best in the system, for two milk pitchers with limited short-term upside. This looks like a GREAT DEAL!

Agreed on Colome

He’s good. I have been consistent there.

Edit: As I have thought about it for a bit, the Span part of the deal is just too reminiscent (for me) to the Dyson trade. There we traded an established arm (Karns) for Dyson. But in some ways it was a Gohara swap for Dyson (with Mallex Smith as the grab and swap guy). In that weird world we swapped Karns for Smyly. No part of that trade worked out. Except for other teams.

Maybe I am just not that interested in trading for aging “complementary” OFs.

Moe, I love you man, but I think you may be getting DTSD

Dipoto Trade Stress Disorder :) :) :)

From above you said: "As a .250 hitter in LF, I am not interested. This team doesn't need veteran leadership, we have it in spades. But the two young arms lost in this deal makes me sad. We can get .250 and his glove from Andreoli or Ian Miller."

Excpet... we can't... The concept of the freely available "Replacement Player", that every team has dozens of floating around in their systems, has been proven false time and time again, at least as far as the Mariners go. How many times do we have to watch rushed kid after rushed kid after hopeful comeback milb vet with a minute of AAA success come up and flounder on the Mariners to the tune of .120/.140/.200 lines before we start believing that being "Certified MLB TM" is a real, tangible valuable skill. You realize that Span immediately, even in his current no longer 28 state becomes our sixth best hitter right? Seager may be on the way up, but he is starting slow as usual and then after that we have garbage. Gordon is a good hitter, but Span has better stats. Anyway call him the 8th best hitter, and we have to have a catcher. So getting Span allows us to once again have a full lineup. Mark me as one who is sick and tired of the M's constantly lugging around a black hole or two in the lineup, so I am VERY glad to have Span a board.

And of course Span wasn't even the main target of the trade to begin with...

Yeah it hurts that we gave up Gohara... Is Karns even still in baseball??? No idea why you brought up his name. Of course if Smyly doesn't get hurt who knows what happens last year, maybe we go to the wild card... What do any past trades have to do with this one anyways?

I get it, you get attached to the farm boys and Dipoto loves to trade them out from under you. But, I for one am ready for the Mariners to break into the playoffs for the first time in a couple decades... And this trade helps get us there, regardless if it hurts my Beaver heart or not.

Good trade. GoMs.