While I ranted in the Straw thread that production and leadership are not synonymous, I did fail to include one tidbit.
It is utterly and completely impossible to be a player-leader while producing at an unacceptable level.
Griffey led the 2009 club even though he was only hitting .700. He didn't lead a darned thing in 2010, BECAUSE he was hitting .400.
Mind you ... even team leaders can slump. And it is at least possible to lead by example by refusing to "give into" a slump and work hard to get out of it. But, ultimately, no .450 bat is every going to be leading a club, (unless it is to their doom). Just like no 8.43 ERA pitcher can lead his club, (no matter what his Hall of Fame credentials might be).
There's a minimum standard of performance, beyond which, you no longer have any privilege of leadership in any clubhouse in any sport ... unless, perhaps, you are willing to take YOURSELF off the field.
It's only 63 PAs ... and maybe there still remains some hope that Olivo can hit a dinger or two and start to at least to give some kind of evidence that he has a little value left. But that window is fast closing. If he cannot get his OPS back to .600, he cannot lead anything.
................
We don' really have a lineup thread, eh ... Just for fun, let's note that, after 60-80 plate appearances, the Mariners have 7 hitters performing as needed to, they have 3 hitters performing badly, and they have 3 hitters who haven't played much:
| Bat | OPS+ |
| Liddi | 206 |
| Ichiro | 118 |
| Saunders | 113 |
| Montero | 94 |
| Seager | 91 |
| Ackley | 90 |
| Ryan | 88 |
| Figgins | 71 |
| Smoak | 54 |
| Olivo | 7 |
| Jaso* | 168 |
| Wells* (only 20 PA) | 126 |
| Kawasaki* | 17 |
The above numbers are misleadingly low; the M's BABIP-LD is still about 50, rather than 100. But they're getting closer.
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Q. Do the above numbers fairly group these hitters according to their actual present-day hitting skills?
A. Looks like it to me, doesn't it you?
Of course there are quid pro quo's. Such as, Alex Liddi is hardly a certified MLB(TM) hitter. Yet.
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Q. Is there any convenient way to play these 7 hitters consistently?
A. Sure. Every way is convenient, if Montero catches and Olivo sits. Only if Olivo plays, do you run into the need to place Liddi or Seager into left field.
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Q. When Carp's back, can you make him #8 in this motley crue?
A. Sure. If Montero catches, you have the seven hitters above, plus Carp, and you can rotate the fish through the lineup any way you want...
- C Montero
- 1B Smoak
- 2B Ackley
- SS Ryan
- 3B Liddi
- LF Carp
- CF Saunders
- RF Ichiro
- DH Seager
You can get Figgins in there at LF, at CF, at DH, at 3B, or at 1B (by sitting Smoak and moving Liddi to 1B).
You can use Olivo as the backup catcher and when he catches, Montero's DH and Seager can sub for anybody.
Even adding Carp, it's no problem at all to get all of the good hitters into the ballgames, and fish for some more of these 15-hit thingies.
..........
Realistically, Gutierrez could platoon with Saunders. Gotta jam everybody into this VW.
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Q. So why wouldn't you?
A. For whichever reasons exist that entitle Olivo and Figgins to play, regardless of whether they're producing.
From the peanut gallery, Dr. D used to be a lot more sympathetic to these reasons than he is now. In my opinion from the cheap seats, the alternatives are becoming obviously tempting, and the need for "leadership" appears to be waning. Do Ackley, Seager, and Liddi need leadership? Is Smoak going to benefit from it?
I wanna see some more 15-hitters thrown at us. Personally, I think it's time. The reality is coalescing. Decisions can be made soon, if not now.
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That's my opinion I could be wrong,
Dr D
Comments
then you must SIT (spoken with finality in true Johnny Cochran style).
While I may be one to pile on underperforming veterans - I'm not one to make judgments about a manager in regards to veteran playing time in April. We simply do not know what is going on behind the scenes. I expect the manager to act as a line-of-defense between the media and the locker room. I expect the manager to say publicly all the things that Wedge has been saying. And, I expect the manager to give the veterans enough rope, enough rope to hang themselves or enough rope to pull themselves back onboard. With respect to your captains, and your leaders, and those who've performed well for you in the past, you owe them an opportunity to sink or swim. So, I'm not aboard the "Wedge sucks as a manager because he DHs Olivo" shtick.
That doesn't mean I think he should DH Olivo. Or play Figgins over better options.
So, Baker this morning with some music to my ears. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/marinersblog/2018075960_mariners_m...
On Figgins:
"We're still giving Figgins an opportunity, but he has to do it -- simple as that,'' Wedge said. "I mean, if he does, we'll kee him in there. If not, we'll make a change.''
On Olivo:
"The space for the veterans is not endless. I can tell you that much.''
And what was that G-Money was saying?
"Because you've got to have veteran presence,'' Wedge said. "It's enough on the kids already. We don't have a 30 (HR) and 100 (RBI) guy , a veteran guy, in the middle of our lineup these kids can always count on him coming to the ballpark. These kids have to count on themselves."
"So, to not have any veteran presence in there and just fully throw in the kids? It will get in the way of their production. It will get in the way of their development, literally. It will take them longer to get there if we don't have that. And I know that for a fact.''
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Love it.
Clear Figgins and Olivo overboard and trade some young arms for 30HR/100RBI guy.
Get 'er done.
- Ben.
3-run homerun, first inning. All the first inning hits were hard, but this was crushed. He really needed that. See ball, hit ball. Get back to doing that and he'll start contributing immediately.
I love hearing Wedge say that he understands why Olivo is in, and that it only works if he can hit. That Figgins needs to produce. It WILL hamper the kids to have to carry the load all by themselves and teach themselves how to go 162 games of serious production. How to ride out the ups and downs of the season. How to not try to do it all and hit 5-run home runs. But if you keep throwing weak vets out there that the kids have to compensate for, that's not helping. I'd rather the kids have to back up each other than that they feel like they have to carry vets too.
Seager is sitting again today so that Liddi can play. I don't really agree with that, but I understand what Wedge is trying to do. I hope that in a couple of weeks if Figgins and Olivo are still doing this that Seager isn't the one sitting. We might be a fortnight from a full-blown razing of the April 2011 lineup and starting from scratch.
If our kid's have to be our Murderers Row in training (Assaulters Row? Possession-with-intent-to-sell Row?) then they won't learn it from the bench. Ackley leading off, Seager hitting second, Ichiro / Smoak / Montero MOTO with Liddi / Saunders / Carp coming down the stretch? That could work nicely eventually. I expect to add that vet bat we're looking for at some point, but we have enough pieces to swap in to give the kids days off when the mental grind gets to em, as Smoak just got.
Just stay agile with the lineup, Wedge. Your vets can't protect the kids, so you'll have to do it. Unless Jack gets you another bat, anyway.
~G
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIie9OosnEM
Kinda cool to be able to sit one of your most consistent offensive contributors and still jump out to a 3-zip lead in the first inning. We're starting to find out how some of the better teams feel all season long, year after year. I LIKE it.
The delinquent youth's row, for whom adult sanctions might be appropriate.
This team has it, IMHO.
Noesi just blew a 4-0 lead as he is wont to do given how badly he eneds to return to AAA to learn how to actually pitch...and they came back next inning and got the lead right back...gotta like that. I don't think veteran leadership is going to be a huge concern later in the year after they've develop their own internal belief system.
Which means I agree with you, he needs to go back to AAA to work on it. He's not very mentally strong right now and when it starts to go sideways he can't correct. But he throws from a rocking chair as long as nobody's on base. It's when he screws up and puts somebody on base that it all falls apart. I think his stuff flattens out immensely from the stretch, but I couldn't watch today like I wanted to in order to verify that assumption from watching previous work.
Can anybody parse his pitch-movement with runners on and without for me in one of those handy charts Doc likes? ;-)
But the team as a whole is getting mentally tougher. What I've liked about playing the Tigers in these games is that the offense didn't play like they'd scored enough runs. Maybe that one Indians game is all they needed to know that no run is safe, and now they're looking to add on in any situation. We kept scoring in multiple innings, which is crucial going forward.
And Wedge is starting to trust more of the pen. Delabar? Conditional trust, in the right circumstances, not with runners on and a HR hitter at the plate, but he likes Delabar.
Luetge? LOTS of trust. Using Furbush as his middle inning Fireman meant that Luetge was it when the tough lefties came to the plate again, and he was absolutely willing to do that. And Luetge keeps rewarding him with gutty efforts.
Wilhelmsen and League are the most trusted, and therefore the assured back of the pen, but other guys are stepping up. Another start or two before Noesi's demotion and Erasmo can start, which will give Iwakuma more run in the pen (or vice versa - I'm okay either way at this point).
But Furbush was nasty - again - and Luetge looks like a tremendous add by Jack these first couple weeks, for an important need. Our bullpen is getting deeper, and our hitters are digging in at the plate and hunkering down.
Gettin' better...
~G
You needed a pic of Johnnie's face :- )
Blowers passing along the code on the wireless today: Wedge owes them April.
Is that cheerier, or is the Tiger sweep cheerier?
If anybody knows where to get that data, I'll try to put a pic up...