Justin Upton - Payin' the Price

Q.  What are the - realistic! - LO, MID, HI scenarios for Upton?  Barring injury, but be serious here.

A.  The HI scenario is given by Shandler.  A player who gives you 40 to 50 homers, along with a .300 batting average - and he runs also.  Juan Gonzalez has always been the comp I liked.

On the other hand, I don't favor the Dick Allen, Manny Ramirez, Frank Robinson scenarios.  A guy like Dick Allen was slugging .600, OPS+'ing 180 from his early 20's and he just stayed there.  You've got to admit that Justin Upton's resume is pretty up-and-down for a Hall of Fame player.  If I'm Jack Zduriencik, I'm most definitely not paying you for Frank Robinson here.

For this reason, if there's somebody "safer" than Upton, some Adrian Gonzalez type out there somewhere, I flat go for him over Upton.  Upton is a breathtaking talent but he's not as bankable as some guys.

.............

On the other hand, the LO scenario that is popular out there, his slugging .434 for the rest of his career ... um, no.  Watch a game.  ;- )  Ruben Sierra is the poster boy for everybody who got fat and lazy after 23, but Upton isn't fat and lazy.  A lot of All-Stars have ebbs and flows.

..............

Lemme break it into two, not three, scenarios.  The 75% probability, that you get 3.5 years of Lance Berkman, Jermaine Dye, Richie (good) Sexson, Jay Buhner, Danny Tartabull production.  And the 25% probability that you get an MVP.

Well, gingerly put a 10% wedge (not that kind of Wedge!) in there for Eric Davis-style injury problems.

.

Q.  Dr. Detecto would pay what, exactly, for this?

A.  You're talking about this year, and then three (3) more years, with Upton being way underpaid.  You've got to admit it's worth a premium package.

Now, other bloggers will always post their own org top-10's and tell you "without the guy I have ranked #1, there's no chance of this trade happening.  Zero."  Was that true of Cliff Lee?  Is it true of half the deals you see go down?  Half the time you've got to go look up the minor leaguers, am I right?

There's no real difference in the values of Hultzen, Taijuan, and Paxton.  Bloggers are all about the Flava of the Month - who was good last week.  GM's don't work that way.  I think if I'm Arizona, I'd rather have Hultzen than Taijuan, having just seen Hultzen at Cheney, and knowing I could start Hultzen next week for the home fans.  But whateva.

I guess I'd give one of my Big Three.  Are they guaranteed to give me more than what 3 years of Justin Upton are worth?  Then of course you add other talents.  

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Q.  In 2010, Baker reported that they asked for the M's best two players, Pineda and Smoak or something.

A.  Tell you something about big bidness, amigo.  You can ask for anything you want.  And you can keep your property.  People do.  What do you want for your little chain of five restaurants?  ... oh, well, my grandpa started the first one... how about the Space Needle?

I don't notice that the Diamondbacks actually moved Upton last time, do you.  In real estate, it's the sold listings that count, not what somebody's asking for.

::shrug::  Arizona could ask for two of the M's top five; there is nothing stopping them from asking double Upton's value.  And they could keep their player again.  The thing is:  ownership is supposed to be done with Upton.  There's an imperative to do something, or so we are told.

............

If you can base the package around Nick Franklin, great.  If you can give three real good prospects who aren't in your top 5 ... as Zduriencik in fact did for Cliff Lee ... so much the better.

I'd like to see Zduriencik give 4-5 good players - Catricala, Erasmo, Triunfel, Wilhelmsen types - and keep his Big Three.  You ain't talking about the Justin Upton of November 2011 here.  The guy is struggling.  We'll see what MLBTR leaks the next few days.  

Cheers,

Dr D

 

 

Comments

1

Think 'zona would like to invest in a guy who can't hit in Safeco (well, mostly he just can't hit), assuming he will "thin air" his way to 30 HRs?
But they'll want an arm, too, I suppose. Paxton for me....but the big three are roughly the same bet at this point.
Would you give away a Franklin or Ackley?
I think not.
But for the right deal, I'll buy Upton.
At dead-bad worst you'll get a league average OF, for whom you over-pay.
Is there some Arizona impact in his numbers? Sure.
But he BABIP'ed in away parks, from '08-'11, .250-.362-.335-.284. Even this year, his down year, he's still at .346
He can hit in other parks.
moe

2

You could get Upton for Franklin and Paxton plus a couple of low-minors fliers. The more interesting question is what configuration you might get him for that doesn't impact our future big-league club in any way.
It would have to be done at this deadline, though. I don't see Upton making it to the offseason as a D-Back unless their asking price is still hilariously over value - he's gonna get moved.
So it's now or never for Upton and his lowered value. Losing teams aren't usually buyers at the deadline, but Upton's not a rent-a-player. I'm curious to see what this July looks like for the Ms.
~G

3

I wouldn't do Paxton AND Franklin for Upton, I think.
Odds are that one of those guys becomes dang good.
Both those guys for 3 full years of Upton. Not me.
If the M's don't see Franklin as a SS, then I would include him, perhaps (.940 fld % in his minor league career. For comparison, Luis Rodriguez has a .965 % in his MiLB career, but E. Andruss had a .943% in his MiLB years. Y. Escobar was .961, Brendan Ryan was .949. Jeter was at .934, but in the .950's in AA/AAA. Franklin doesn't compare that terribly.)
But I'm not including one of the big three AND him.
moe
btw, According to B-R, Jeter has NEVER played another position in the field in the minors OR the majors! I wondered just how wildly odd that was, but then found that the same could be said for Ozzie Smith. Interesting.
Edit/rethought: I'm generally a buyer on Upton, generally. But price is always part of the equation.
One of the big three? No problem, but not with Franklin IF he's our SS. As a SS, he's too valuable. As a 2B, he might become expendable. I will think about a 2B Franklin/Paxton type deal. May have to include Guti, too (salary...and clearing the deck)...and another Arizona piece.

4

They link to Ken Rosenthal, who says Ms are "wide open" to trades, but won't get Upton because ... Felix, Ackley, Seager, the Big Three and Little Nicky are all "off limits."
Grains of salt, of course.  Smoak and Montero were "off limits" weren't they?  Until the right deal came along.
But the point that Ms are not posturing themselves aggressively in that market is probably correct.
They add (not from Rosenthal) that Vargas, Millwood, League, Olivo and Ryan would be the trade pieces.

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