Maybe Z is the guy to figure it all out. Maybe.
He is, after all, the guy who brought us another disasterous year of Junior, signed a 1B because he could glove it but couldn't hit a lick, let Branyan go (OK...He did sign him in the first place), signed Figgins to a stupid contract, was asking for insane value for Aardsma, and gave us Milton.
OK...some of those "could" work out still...But how much are you betting that Milton is a force this year and that Figgins is a 95+ OPS+ guy?
He's acquired two batless SS's...but I can understand that.
Getting Smoak was nice...but not brilliant. He paid Lee handsomely.....Lee came. Lee morphed into Smoak.
Ackley was nice...but almost every other GM in baseball made that pick.
Guti was nice...Not brilliant, but nice.
He canned Wak becasue Wak jumped on Figgy...who was Z's fair-haired acquisition.
Z is betting on himself (ergo Wedge) because his arse is on the line. I can understand that bet. But he has yet to show he's anything but a guy with a suit, a title that not many other guys have, and an office.
The proof is in the pudding. 2011 is the pudding.
Z is nothing right now. This year will reveal if that contintues (and he's gone) or if he's really got what it takes.
I'm rooting for him, but I'm not betting on the Z Trifecta yet. This year will reveal more truth about his form chart.
moe
MtGrizzly, who understands business management more than anybody I've seen in the blog-o-sphere, sez (regarding Zduriencik's handing decisions to his field manager)
It happens a lot. And it's something they don't teach you in business school.
If an exec's butt is on the line over a given product development or department's performance, he will almost certainly micro-manage it. He will have to have a malleable product manager or department head in place. A strong, independent type will just create too much conflict. I've been through it myself as a :ahem: very Type-A, independent manager. Micro manage me and it's going to go bad for everyone involved. (We presume you've never worked for a guy who was much better at your job than you were, Grizz. That's cool.)
Funny, that I never put the Valentine/Wedege thing in this context but it makes perfect sense.
Ya. It's fine to theorize as to what might, should, could, would work in bidness.
In the real world, lots of different things work, depending on the people involved. If the 4th-level is much more talented, competent, etc than the 2nd- and 3rd-levels, then he will and must stay close to the day-to-day processes.
If the 2nd-level knows a lot more than the 3rd :coughLouvsChuckcough: then micromanaging hurts the company.
Have been part of orgs where the upper guy was far better than his employee, and also have seen it vice versa. When budgets and customers are on the line, you want the SMART guy calling the shots, whether that's a level down or a level up.
...................
In serious companies, there's seldom much stigma attached to a 2nd-level manager executing the day-to-day direction of a high-handed 3rd-level. Everybody in the building understands that the 3rd-level has fangs down to his chin. Nobody blames the 2nd-level for adapting.
And if the 3rd-level is good at what he does, nobody resents it, either. (They might, and probably do, fear for their jobs. But they don't resent competence.)
...................
Zduriencik is undoubtedly the best baseball man in the M's org, by a good ways, so personally I'm glad to have him running the show with a high hand.
Who do you want choosing the next left fielder, the next setup man, the next #4 starter? Wedge? Wedge is a generic, not-hyper-talented manager who might or might not be able to overcome his lack of feel for a pitching change. SSI respects the stuffing out of Jack Zduriencik.
Who do you want making the call on Mauricio Robles' role? It's going to be Wedge or Zduriencik. Take yer pick.
Me? I want Jack Zduriencik, and not Eric Wedge, deciding whether Mauricio Robles starts or relieves.
I want Zduriencik -- the one who called Russell Branyan correctly -- surveying the play in April, and determining whether Jack Cust platoons or not. And I want Zduriencik making every other short-term decision --- > in such a manner that it coheres with the long-term direction.
Committees are not agile and committees are not coherent. Gimme one talented guy who can impose his will, his art and his science onto the chaos of the battlefield.
So, seeing I like the GM so much, the appointment of Wedge as an extension of Zduriencik's will is a plus for me. Call the shots, Capt Jack. We're wit' choo.
....................
Notice, also, Geoff Baker's fine feel for what went on with the managerial hire. Lonnie's whole interview with Baker was just riveting, line after line.
....................
By the way, it is possible to get synergy between two talented and win-over-ego execs -- neither micromanagement nor hands-off, but just synergy. Gillick and Piniella decided that each guy would take 'em for 58 wins' worth, one year. Zduriencik + Piniella woulda been quite a show to watch, wouldn't they?
.
My $0.02,
Dr D
Comments
Curiously, I have worked for one lady that was better at my job than me. And she was a ruthless delegator. Working for her, you either kicked butt or got kicked out.
But she was never worried about her position when I worked for her and I doubt she ever would worry. It's not like there are only a handful of SVP jobs open every year in the entire country. Being a pro-sports GM must be tough - you might only get one shot at being one and you generally don't get the job in the first place if the club is in good shape.
Cubs finally get Garza after long negotiations, giving them something like 8 SP, or so :-)
You think Z pulls another B.Ryan-esque wait and trade for SP Tom Gore-zell-anni?
If Tom G could be had for something comparable to Cleto, would you still miss Cappy?
The NL Central connection is there, as Tom started his career with the Bucs. How about it?
I don't know whether Zduriencik is the guy to be the GM of our first World Series appearance.
I do know that the calls on the outgoing minor leaguers have almost all been accurate and in practically every case what has come back (again as far as minor leaguers are concerned) has been more valuable than what left. Even with his "questionable" trades.
He trades a couple months of Washburn for a #7ish starter in French...and a minor league arm that is probably the top-ranked starter in our system with Pineda's promotion - at least until draft day in June.
He moved the bullpenner Morrow for the bullpenner League. Morrow is now starting and striking out a ton of guys...but he got back 30 HR sensation Chavez who is better-than-age-appropriate in his leagues. Is Chavez a High Desert product? Maybe. If he isn't he'll have quite a bit of value.
It's not the calls on Ackley that make the difference between Jack and another GM, it's the ones on guys like Franklin and Littlewood and Walker and Peguero and Choi.
And having the balls to swap valued players from your org for valued players from someone else's and get ahead. I would swap Gillies/JCR/Aumont for Smoak/Beavan/Lueke any day of the week.
I still would have taken Montero over Smoak, but if Lueke is the next JJ Putz that has value too. And based on what we gave up I can't complain about coming out 5500 dollars ahead instead of 6000 at that game of high stakes poker.
Maybe Jack isn't the guy to GM the club (though I still feel he is) but even if he isn't he's building the foundation for the next guy. Bavasi left us very little, and nothing at certain levels of the minors. Repairing the farm system is one of the greatest gifts Jack can give the Mariners.
Figuring out how to add major leaguers would be a boon too, but if he's good enough at the minors thing it's not as huge a problem. Bavasi screwed up both sides, and has left us recovering now.
While Jack gets judged right now on his ability to put a big league club together and add the right free agents, judgment on his true impact on the roster is going to be delayed for a few years. IMO, he's already had quite the positive impact on our future Mariners seasons just with his minor league additions.
I hope he gets the major league club corrected in time to stick around and watch those players flourish for the Ms, or to trade some of them for players who will.
~G
As to Jr., let's not forget that he was an organizational decision... what little Z said about it was pretty skeptical, before the re-sign...
Coupla body blows you've got there are Kotchman and Wak vs Figgy...
Z's rep around baseball is definitely that he's been making one terrific move after another, but ... that the Mariners haven't gotten far yet...
Was also a woman, about 60 years old. Staggeringly brilliant, and a ruthless delegator like yours was.
The guy above her was about 30 years old, even more brilliant, and an unpleasant man who examined your every move.
Like we sez, have seen folks make it work both ways...
Could see him becoming anything from Matt Young/Bruce Chen to Oliver Perez to ... well, if he gets it together maybe we're talking Mark Langston v2.0...
Interesting fit M-Pops! on the MI-vs-SP with the Cubbies... would like to see some permutations on that...
Any chance they'd let go of Silva? ......
Maybe Jack isn't the guy to GM the club (though I still feel he is) but even if he isn't he's building the foundation for the next guy.
Killer point. If they replaced him right now, they'd be thrilled with what he's done for the talent reservoir.
And what a consideration that is, as to whether you keep him. When you let somebody go and say, "Wow! Glad that guy was here," chances are you shouldn't be letting him go...
'course Jack is not young...
While Jack gets judged right now on his ability to put a big league club together and add the right free agents, judgment on his true impact on the roster is going to be delayed for a few years.
San-man would say ... let Ackley, Smoak, Pineda and/or whoever start contributing large, and THEN give Zduriencik his chance to prove his feel for a 25-man roster...
Could easily argue that Zduriencik hasn't yet had his real cuts at the plate...
I like Z, and would give him 2-3 years. But the Morrow trade was a mistake and I think he knows it.
Which means I don't have to spin it into a positive. ;)
But assuming it wasn't, and that Morrow was a straight-up "give me your bullpenner for my bullpenner and throw in some scrub minor league hitter" consideration, then yes, it looks like a bad deal in year one.
If Chavez is a 30 HR left fielder and Morrow blows his arm out as a starter, the equation changes. If League becomes dominant instead of decent, it changes again. And Morrow is about to get expensive.
I liked Morrow's arm, but not his head or his chances for staying healthy. Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe Z was wrong. Morrow certainly looks like a devastating starter in the making if his arm doesn't break and his head stays screwed on straight. Nothing wrong with those K totals, certainly.
I'd like to have him back after last season's performance to trade him again for a better haul, that's for sure. But I'm willing to lose a trade out of every 10.
~G
Your assumption is that Morrow would have performed exactly the same in Seattle as he did in Toronto last year. And I don't think there is any way that would have happened.
I'm with G - Morrow doesn't strike me as the strongest guy, mentally speaking, and he was done in Seattle. He needed the change of scenery to have a shot at fulfilling his potential. I say that as his MC adopted "parent". Remember, this is a club that had him so mixed up that he actually told Zduriencik that he *wanted* to be in the bullpen.
Z's mistake with Morrow was giving him the choice instead of just telling him that he was going to Tacoma and not coming back until he earned a spot in the starting rotation. Morrow needs that kind of certainty and structure to succeed. IMHO.
He needed Morrow as closer, because the M's were breaking camp without one. Aardsma hadn't yet emerged and the other hopefuls were injured. This is what Z told us at the USSM/LL get together. I simply don't buy the "Bust in Seattle" theme. He was demonstrating glimpses of what he eventually did for Toronto in late September (2.66 ERA, .181 opp BA). He had that great fastball, and knew he could get major leaguers out. But Z knew all this and still decided to trade him, so no doubt he did have makeup concerns. I think events are proving and will continue to prove he was wrong. Chavez is maybe a B prospect. And even if Morrow is truly mentally fragile, what on earth has anyone seen in League that improves on Morrow in that capacity. Linking Morrow in the Lee trade is pure speculation. But hey, if it makes us all feel a little better about Z, then I suppose we can keep telling ourselves that. But I think the evidence, while not all in, is pointing heavily toward Bad Trade.
He's always had the great fastball. I think there were definitely makeup concerns with his "I never want to pitch in the pen or go to the minors" comments. The Mariners certainly did him a disservice by bullpenning him for no good reason, but Brandon shot himself in the foot here with managers and the GM both.
He's also a home-pitcher: he likes to be in his comfort zone, and the road doesn't provide that.
Home OPS-against: .585
Road OPS-against: .832
That's career, and it carried over to Toronto so it's not an effect of Safeco. He's a pitcher that needs to have his ducks in a row. He always seemed lost on the road IMO - I never wanted him to close for me.
And the other major concern I had was whether he would ever hold up to throwing that mid-90s fastball for enough innings to be successful.
Morrow, IP:
Age 19: 29
Age 20: 25
Age 21: 109
Age 22: 63
Age 23: 94
Age 24: 124
Age 25: 146
Again, maybe that's the Mariners' fault for not making him a starter no matter what. And Jack could have absolutely be wrong to trade him. Morrow has certainly produced some amazing starts that would lead one to believe he's a top-flight starter in the making.
But I wouldn't have bet on Morrow either at the time of the trade. If I don't think his arm will hold up to starting, but I think he's a mentally weak pitcher so he can't close, then what should I do with him? I would have tried to trade him for more, certainly, but Jack tends to trade people as soon as he's positive they cannot help him win. That'll lead to some people leaving early.
*shrugs* Again, I'm willing to put Morrow in the "oops" corner and still count Jack's trade record as quite a positive.
~G
When I showed up today, this comment was 'unpublished' for some reason. Maybe we need to get you an admin key so you can fix this kind of stuff?
That is a great point, Grizz, that in Seattle Morrow might not have evolved... personally, I would say most probably would not have...
The Mariners treated Morrow well, but their contempt for him was palpable...
That being the case, can we really blame them for cashing him in?
At DOV in June 2006...
...............
Q: He's frail, though, right.
A: Lots of stuff … type I diabetes, pitches with a pump hooked to his skin, keeps an asthma inhaler on the bench, had growing pains and was sure it was a labrum, etc.
No offense amigo — there are nice guys, and there are tough players. I see Morrow as a nice guy, a sensitive type. He'd make a better friend than a Game 7 starter…
Q: OK, so [if he's the most talented pitcher after Lincecum] why do you say he's your least fave [draft] choice for the M's?
A: Objectively speaking, Brandon Morrow is a #1 overall in this, or in many drafts.
From a judgment standpoint, I just see "tease" written all over the guy.
I see a pitcher who will get confused and discouraged, a guy who beats up on weak opposition but who will back down from challenges, a guy who if he loses even a tick off his fastball is right where Gil Meche is. In fact Morrow reminds me of the young Gil Meche, in lots of ways.
Now I could easily be wrong. It so happens the "baloney alarm" is going off for D-O-V, for no particular reason. But if you don't buy Dr. D's (or your own) intuition, by all means go with the toolbox. Morrow's arm and mechanics are a 70 if not a 75 or even an 80 on the 20-80 scale.
We'll see what Fontaine thinks, maybe …
Enjoy,
Dr D
*shrugs* Again, I'm willing to put Morrow in the "oops" corner and still count Jack's trade record as quite a positive.
In evaluating ANY general manager, you've got 15 primary things to put in the good column, and 15 primary things to put in the oops column. As Craig Wright said, if he's batting 60% he is leading the field.
But at any given time, a GM is defined by a bumper sticker - by one move. It used to be that Jack Zduriencik was --- > Franklin Gutierrez. Now he's --- > Brandon Morrow.
...............
I'm with you, G: I'd lump the Morrow trade with the two Lee trades, whether or not they were schemed that way behind the scenes.
And my guess is that they WERE schemed that way. But it wouldn't matter if they weren't.
Any chance they would swap Silva for, say, Milton Bradley?
(He says with an evil grin)