Chat: 11/18/15 6:21pm
Chat: 11/18/15 6:21pm
Shouts
<p>If #Montgomery is in fact out of options, then I'd guess he's available as well, along with Montero, Flores, and Jose Ramirez, who have no reasonable chance of making the 25-man as currently foreseen.</p>
<p>Going back to the bullpen. The rationale to go big on getting Sipp, Lowe, AND Oh would be that Walker may still need to be on a count, Paxton has 103 IP as his base (maybe 160 IP next year if they push it), Karns was a 5-inning pitcher in TB, and without Iwakuma, Felix will be the only innings-eater. Nuno and Elias, by that count, will get starts, and Bass probably will, too. Zych might go to Tacoma just to see if he can start; he becomes an ace-in-the-hole if Smith or Karns have issues. #Montgomery, who apparently has 1 option left, starts in Tacoma as well, but having the lights-out bullpen makes a lot of sense to me given the likely rotation, with or without 'Kuma. In any case, there's a lot of 5-6 inning starts ahead.</p>
<p>I'd talked about trying for Steve Clevenger (when he was a Cub) two years ago as a LH bat C to alternate with Zunino. But it would likely take more than Montero to spring him loose, even with Weiters taking the QO. And he's out of options, too. Chance Sisco is also a LH-hitting C if you want to wait a year or two, but they'd probably want Paxton or Walker for him. Dariel Alvarez, new-sign Cuban, is a RF/CF guy, but again, Montero by his ownself wouldn't be near enough.</p>
<p>That was me as Anonymous below on the RF situation. On Montero, I'd guess he's gone to the first team needing a DH/1B. Roster Resource lists #Baltimore (if Davis leaves) or the A's as candidates. Without an option left, he's got to go to a team with an immediate need.</p>
<p>++for the skill set (RF athletic enough for CF, good bat, good arm, can hit 5-7 or maybe 2, AVAILABLE) is that few guys tick off all the reqs.++ Which was exactly the point that DiPoto made on Leonydas. I don't have to like it, but this "get more athletic" direction (with a very unexciting player) has got to be the smart #Money bet. But ask us tomorrow...</p>
<p>Matt - I like your 18 'hard pencil marks' better than my 'Overview' shtick:</p>
<p>King Felix, Karns, Walker, Elias</p>
<p>Furbush, Benoit, C. Smith, Zych</p>
<p>Ianetta, Zunino (assuming that Ianetta thing still happens)</p>
<p>Trumbo, Cano, Seager, Marte</p>
<p>Guti, S. Smith, Martin, Cruz</p>
<p>....</p>
<p>What would be cool would be to see a hyper-tentative Next 7 based on the current sitch. Moe's got Taylor and O'Malley/Kivlehan (Powell). I'll throw back in Paxton just on an "as we stand now" basis. Anthony Bass. Leaves two scrubbeenies for the Mighty Think Tank to resolve, assuming too that Iwakuma shuffles off to #Buffalo.</p>
<p>The problem I see is that for the skill set (RF athletic enough for CF, good bat, good arm, can hit 5-7 or maybe 2, AVAILABLE) is that few guys tick off all the reqs. If you don't like Ozuna, there's Parra, who may want a greater commitment, or you go BIGTIME and get Heyward. Now, if Mather, Dipoto and company can sell another 8-10/$240M contract to the ownership, I'd be thrilled to have Heyward on the team and in the lineup. But he's LH, which makes lineup balance hard unless Zunino really starts hitting. The day Heyward signs, I'd guess Smith is on the market and Kivlehan will be Guti's alternate.</p>
<div class="indented">Reply - Browns8625 - 11/20/15 9:24am<br><p>To get a big name guy who can defend and cover ground and will improve offensively..Heyward I would love. If you are going to spend some money on a guy and that's the position you want..make the deal</p>
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<p>Jesus Montero ... with the 25-man roster as is (HA!) I can't possibly imagine how Montero even comes to camp with a fantasy shot at coming North ... and the imposed radio silence on him is ominous also. He'd be like the one player left on whom you could even theoretically display Hosmer/Moustakas type "patience" ...</p>
<p>The fact that Seth Smith has all those "been there done that" stickers on his briefcase actually is kind of odd. I wonder why such a skilled player, with such a cool personality, and such a desirable skill set, has 15 chicken dinners and train tickets on his resume.</p>
<p>Tough point-counterpoint there on Seth Smith / Franklin Gutierrez, who in 2015 ... well, follow Dr. D @clarke_jeff for the mini-quip. We'll have you 'net rats sprinting through the maze in no time. Or you'll have me doing so, 'cause it was Matt's point-out and this one is a mic drop.</p>
<p>Ozuna, like Parra, is NOT my kinda player but there is a non-zero possibility that Jerry DiPoto > Dr. D. You may NOT disclose that I conceded such. People ax, 'What would Dr. D do' but oddly ... you find yourself much more interested in what DiPoto will do than you are in what YOU would do</p>
<p>Matt -- where do you see Zych in 2016 and then in 2017? You see him consolidating a Lowe-like place in the game, or more, or ?</p>
<p>"I cannot keep up with the shout box anymore...wow..." The Hot Stove Capital of the World: the mighty Klat shout box</p>
<p>Bat's bullpen is (a) feasible and (b) the scourge of the American League: "Oh, Benoit, Smith, Bass, Sipp, Furbush, and Lowe" Lessee: Sasaki as closer. 2 All-Star caliber setup guys. Carson Smith makes the club by virtue of being a 27-to-make-1 in house reliever. Model swing man. And two of the best lefty hosses in the game. Rotation becomes academic. Vidal Nuno can now plan on a 16-9 record.</p>
<p>Taylor, Matt. </p>
<p>O'Malley, Kivlehan or some multi-positional IF/OF guy. Include 'em</p>
<p>Hard pencil marks for the following players to make the 25 man:</p>
<p>King Felix, Karns, Walker, Elias</p>
<p>Furbush, Benoit, C. Smith, Zych</p>
<p>Ianetta, Zunino (assuming that Ianetta thing still happens)</p>
<p>Trumbo, Cano, Seager, Marte</p>
<p>Guti, S. Smith, Martin, Cruz</p>
<p>There is actually still quite a bit of work to do for JeDi. I couldn't pencil in Paxton because there are lots of rumors about JeDi wanting to cash him in for something else good. Wanted Iwakuma in there, but I have a sinking feeling he walks elsewhere and the #Money gets spent, at least in part, on the bullpen and an outfielder acquired in trade. Still need three relievers. Still need a good utility infielder and either a DH-type or the aforementioned outfielder. So...lots to do still.</p>
<p>OBF, I'm with you there, too. I like Montero as a vL specialist, but with Smith-Cruz-Trumbo-Montero you basically have 4 guys DiPoto doesn't "want" to play in the OF (1 who can't). Assuming one of them does, then you have 3 1B or DH's on the 25 man. I could easily see Montero left off for a much more flexible guy, a Kivlehan, for example.</p>
<div class="indented">Reply - Browns8625 - 11/20/15 9:26am<br><p>The idea of having guys 8n the of that do not want to be there is unsettling. Not a recipe for success.. go get a guy</p>
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<p>I see lots of mentions about Montero being a 25 man given... Has JeDi commented on him at all? Honestly I see him as a potential DFA to save roster space. Anti JeDi player... he is NOT athletic, Doesn't have a defensive position, has a large platoon split and doesn't even have that good of an eye... Does he have a good attitude now at least?</p>
<div class="indented">Reply - mojician - 11/19/15 11:09am<br><p>Montero is the Sith lord of lefty mashers, but not much else. Not JeDi's guy for sure. Spoints.</p>
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<p>A correction: I surmised that I wouldn't Trade Smith for Sipp, straight up. But Sipp is, of course, a FA this year. No trade necessary.</p>
<p>#Colorado replaced Smith with an all-star...#Oakland replaced Smith with a few extra minutes in a metered steam room (they literally trade players for clubhouse amenities, they're so poor)...I do not think the Mariners need to emulate #Oakland's willingness to punt players to save a buck...we need to win. Now. And #San_Diego replaced him with Upton. So...yeah. Not convinced that Smith's production can be so easily replaced. Especially since...um...we are TERRIBLE at that.</p>
<div class="indented">Reply - Browns8625 - 11/19/15 8:20am<br><p>It is amazing how.in what I wouod.consider a big market.. teams in cali have few funds. As stadium so.old.. in football sf took forever sd has ancient field. Maybe new one to finally come for that soon..buy still. Yiu woukd figure lots of loyal fans</p>
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<p>And bet'cha DiPoto has considered Smith as our DH. With Cruz in RF, of course, where he likes to be. It would mean that we would need another 1B somewhere else in the lineup, to back up Trumbo. But how would a Montero/Smith platoon look?</p>
<div class="indented">Reply - Browns8625 - 11/19/15 8:21am<br><p>I think I can dig montero smith platoon. Lil but of everything skill wise. Montero seemed to be doing better at plate at the end of last season</p>
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<p>Here's the bottom line. The choice isn't between a RP upgrade/OF downgrade and the status quo. The choice is the delta between the reliever you get in trade and the one you sign in FA for a reasonable salary...along with the OF downgrade...vs. the status quo with an added reliever that only costs you #Money. Relievers you'd get in trade for Smith are literally EVERYWHERE...the ultimate RLP...if even the MARINERS can find relievers as easily as South Park's writers find an offensive yet hilarious joke, then they are not worth trading for unless you give up something you aren't using. Period. And speaking of offensive yet hilarious jokes...how often have the Mariners given up something they WERE using to get a reliever...and how often have we appreciated that trade in retrospect?</p>
<div class="indented">Reply - Browns8625 - 11/19/15 8:23am<br><p>It will be interesting to see if dipoto can adaquately fill in all the gaps. I for one am crossing fingers..AND toes</p>
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<p>#Colorado replaced him in RF with Cuddyer. #Oakland replaced him at DH/LF with Callaspo and to some extent (his PA's) with a 29 year old Vogt, who had 175 not really impressive MLB PA's under his belt. SD replaced him in LF with a more athletic (Gee!) Justin Upton. OK, we're not finding an Upton, but the other guy-types can be found. He's likely ours and I'm not bothered about that. But DiPoto likes those Upton types.</p>
<div class="indented">Reply - Browns8625 - 11/19/15 8:25am<br><p>I'm okay on Upton.. never really materialize in atl or sd..well at least big drop offs from pre_atl</p>
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<p>And part of the Ozuna equation is what you give up. He isn't going to be given away.</p>
<p>It doesn't matter what Smith has been worth in the past...it matters whether his production can be replaced on THIS team. And no...Powell and Flores are not going to do that.</p>
<p>Oops, those last two were me. Forgot to sign in after clearing browsing data. Drats.</p>
<p>In #Politics, Doc...all the time. Just yesterday, as a matter of fact. Following up on that one today.</p>
<p>But the gamble may more likely be on Flores (if healthy). Matt, you know I think Smith is a fine LH bat. And he's a great platooner to go with Guti. However, he's been expendable everyplace he's been, and for bullpen guys, too. With Z with keep him. With DiPoto, I'm not so sure we do. Thus the 60/40. On Ozuna, I'm not a big fan, for many of the reasons Matt mentioned. That, and I have a bias against Boras guys.. But as a dirt cheap 4th OF who matches well with Martin, well, he would do just fine. And he won't cost you any semi-serious cash for 2 years. But, to tell you the truth, I would rather we just ran Kivlehan out there in CF as a 4th OF, if he has decent defensive abilities. Or, O'Malley. Both are flexible enough to play an IF position, too. And I wouldn't trade Smith straight up for Sipp, either. Sipp's 55 innings are just not enough. But there are arrangements were I would trade Smith. DiPoto will see it that way, too. Other GM's have. Just depends on the arrangement.</p>
<p>Also of note...when you are looking to contend now, you do not gamble your whole flippin' season on someone like Boog Powell.</p>
<div class="indented">Reply - Browns8625 - 11/19/15 8:26am<br><p>Agreed..and this team has the potential to compete if not in division atleast for wc</p>
</div><div class="indented">Reply - mojician - 11/19/15 10:14am<br><p>Hear Hear! </p>
<p>This is why Z got canned. He just didn't see the need for redundancy. He was too much of an optimist! If he would have obtained a great relief pitcher in 2015, the Mariners would have made the Wild Card Game.</p>
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<p>And no...I don't trade Smith for Sipp...you do NOT create more holes that you have to fill when you're trying to contend now, just to plug other holes. We should be looking to add...not to shuffle the deck chairs. Right now, Smith and Gutierrez are a dream team platoon. I don't break that apart, not for all the tea in #China, and certainly not for a solid lefty reliever. I would much rather spend actual #Money on a free agent reliever.</p>
<div class="indented">Reply - Browns8625 - 11/19/15 8:28am<br><p>I am confident dipoto us a filler. He knows what he wants and likes and I think even knows what the team needs. Time will tell, but this is a guy that can pick talent. Maybe no future hofs...but grinders</p>
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