=== Aiki-Wok Extends Ki ===
So, Dustin Ackley is a second baseman now. If he hasn't shown you what you wanted to see by now, you shouldn't have run the experiment to start with, right?
The TNT with an adieu to Ackley. Divish, on the scene, opines that Ackley works hard and is open to instruction, not only from his coaches, but that he also is not too ego'ed out to sponge off his senior players, even at the position he's competing at.
Aiki-Wakamatsu notices a "calmness" to Ackley's play at second base. This Ichiro-like serenity is considered the final stage of mastery in Japan, as opposed to "greed for success." Serene masters enjoy the craftsmanship that goes into a perfect process, not a mere finished product that cannot be appreciated by lesser students anyway.
"Greed for success," shrillness when grabbing at a favorable outcome, implies unsureness about one's skills. You wouldn't grab, unless you were worried you might not get it.
The craftsman -- like Ackley -- is satisfied with his own skill level regardless of outcome. He goes about the business of executing his skills with precision, and not with (overt) power.
.
=== Large Mammals, Small Mammals ===
The TNT also opines that it's a cool thing to be quick when you're playing the infield.
It seems years ago that Ackley's move was highly controversial, but permit us to put a tick mark on SSI's side of the scoreboard. :- ) The three things that made Ackleys' 2B move a no-brainer are still with us, and are the same things that all but guarantee his impact as a major leaguer:
Ackley's UNC coach liked Ackley's chances not to be a tolerable second baseman, but to be an outstanding second baseman. We maintain, now as then, that Fox is the right guy to ask this question.
Fox also said something to the effect that Ackley is the best hitter he has seen in the ACC. That covers some serious ground...
.
=== Mars Hill and Athens Dept. ===
The resistance to Ackley's move was a generic resistance that could have been applied to anyone in the same situation. This should have made us suspicious, in part because Ackley is not an ordinary ballplayer.
Note that arguments against Shawn Kelley's conversion are also generic arguments that could be applied to any pitcher. This is a basic violation of logic that should make us suspicious that we are being too paradigm-locked.
Arguments that would be no different, had we never listened to the other side or examined the case in front of us, are weak arguments. These were applied against Ackley's move to 2B, and are being applied now against Kelley's move to SP.
Not meaning to noodge, there are times when it hits you that an argument you are typing up, could apply to 100% of analogous circumstances -- and then you (hopefully) remember to hit the delete key.
................
Every scout you listen to, watches Dustin Ackley and proclaims him a future batting champion. Read: they watch him and they see better hitting ability than ... the ML stars they watch during the season.
Well, I'm psyched, anyway.
BABVA,
Dr D
I refer specifically to his mechanics as being questionable for a permanent rotation spot to allow for him to last all that long before injury likelihood increased. And to his not having demonstrated yet that he can keep HR rate low enough to survive (
Matt, I always enjoy your posts. I don't live in Seattle so sometimes have to follow more on paper. I only saw Kelly throw a few pitches on TV last year and it was, I think, an out and a bomb. I wouldn't even be able to comment on his mechanics good or bad so am curious what specifics you were thinking of. Thanks!!
...it's generally a really bad sign for a pitcher's connective tissues if, when he throws a lot of sliders, his side explodes randomly, causing him to land on the DL for a few months.
Did you guys notice that Kelley threw more breaking pitches (and his slider was WAY sharper) in April than he did after he came back? I think the club told him to be careful throwing that pitch too much because to get that spin, he was having to put a lot of whole-body torque on the ball.
Second of all, Kelley throws across his body somewhat. At least that's the way it looks to me. You can succeed doing that, but it does increase the strain a pitcher's throwing shoulder.
And of course, in every image I've seen of Kelley at release point, he uses extreme scapular loading (not always bad) combined with a fairly high pitching elbow (generally dangerous) to create power (probably at least in part to compensate for a throwing motion where he finishes with his body sort of twisted around the center line (the across-body motion I was referring to).
His mechanics aren't REALLY bad...just a bit disconcerting to me for a starting pitcher.
Was thinking of other thoughts on the subject, and talking about those, not yours (which slipped my mind for a moment). Absolutely right - your take on Kelley was extremely specific.
Not that Dr. D signs off on the mechanical take :- ) but because the argument is specific to Kelley, it gains traction.
:daps:
I love your posts on Ackley. I could watch that kid swing all day. I look forward to seeing this kid play.
Thanks Matt. My Mariners live eye sadly is normally reduced to ESPN and a box score. I appreciate your analysis. And that makes total sense. It does not take terrible mechanics to raise the probability for damage. Always reminds me how hard it is to break certain habits as you know that many of these guys have been told what they are doing. But thanks for your words....helps draw the picture in my mind. I really have enjoyed your ability to critique.
Generally I've associated armside oblique strains with unnatural followthroughs. Dr. Mike Marshall, for example, broke a rib (and ended his stardom) with a "pull the windowshade down" finish that he later realized was unnatural.
Your thoughts on that?
G-Money?
It is funny Jeff, I remember Marshall when he was kind of a tough little pitcher with those great sideburns for the Dodgers. I would like to get study his material more first hand finally as you got me curious on this. Just busy with studies of my own right now. His arm motion theory pronates through the motion to take advantage of the larger muscles and take away from elbow, etc. Totally opposite of the traditional and does make a lot of sense. I really want to see the details more of his off speed pitches, especially the curve ball. My knowledge of his material is very limited but I do completely agree with him that most kids hurt their arms needlessly through aggressive coaching and now seeing radar guns showing up to check out 10 year olds. Kind of crazy. Additionally, what he said about the traditional slider or curve does make injury more likely. I have taught younger kids off speed with good movement but not with the twisting.
And there will be guys on here much more knowledgeable than me about Marshall and his claims. He gets branded a Kook by some. But I don’t think there can be an injury free method to throw hard. Our bodies are so intertwined. He uses heavy weights for wrists or throwing heavy balls. With his style that might not hurt an arm but take a Ryan Anderson and maybe it would have hurt a neck muscle. Like a nice car, eventually, the pieces do wear down in time. Ever hurt your back simply by sneezing? Interesting thought though!
Marshall states that he ruined his career by using mechanics about which he has since learned better...
Had 90% of them right, he says, but somebody talked him into "pulling the shade down" on the followthrough, and that was the culprit for permanently injuring the side of his ribs...
Jeff, it is interesting. I think he has some interesting points and would like to read some more first hand but I just don't think something like a motion of pitching is foolproof, so to speak. Kids don't just grow up using "a" pitching motion but throwing while moving at short, etc. Have you seen any of his stuff. He uses heavy wrist bands, etc.
to me the default motion is long toss but yeah. When Jack Wilson is airborne flying behind the bag at 2B, or kneeling behind 3B, what kinda throw is that...
Weighted wrists and ankle bands I always thought of as totally brainless. Skew your entire throw and gait. But am sure Dr. M would have plenty to say about it...
Yeah, like with Ichiro, with Jamie Moyer, with Wilson at SS, there are times that there is a definite ballet / poetry quality to baseball ... like figure skating...
When somebody like Ackley or Ichiro shows you just how "true" and effortless and powerful a motion can be, it's pretty mesmerizing...
Same with Russell Branyan ...
Jeff, so true! Maybe you know this, eventually I really want to look closer at Marshall's philosophies, but are there any of his students that have becomes successful at the ML level? He has been at this for quite a time. I realize that a coach can do great and a player stink and even vice versa but....just a thought. I think that with his stuff, like most, there are probably a lot of sound ideas but then some extremes.
I really enjoy your thoughts, perspectives! Thanks! GO DAWGS!
But MLB hates Marshall's guts, so he could easily protest that his lack of high-level disciples is do to prejudice.
Hard to say - it is weird that for a guy whose wisdom (to me) seems so 21st-century, he gets studiously ignored by baseball ...
..................
One of the really compelling things Marshall has written, he talks about going to a doctor's with one other Dodger (?) pitcher, Messersmith or somebody like that.
He details all of the warping of Messersmith's bones, by the fractions of inches etc, and it's horrific. Then he details his own arm measurements and they're all pristine and perfect, as though he'd never pitched.
This from a guy who pitched 200 *relief* innings, in back-to-back years... that Marshall was freakishly more durable than ANY other post-WWII pitcher is a matter of record.
Great points Dr! But imagine if one of his disciples had an outstanding year in college, or even in high school, mlb liking or not, he is going to be a bonus baby and get the publicity. Interesting points. Why do some keep going...hey, how many young Mariner prospectives burned out before Tacoma? In my ignorance, I have a hard time admitting to some fool proof method. It is physics but each body is unique. Somewhere the two must meet.