Justin Upton is a good player, but the idea that Nick Franklin was a throw-in on ANY deal seems like a ridiculous notion to me, and apparently Zduriencik agreed. That was his lament: that people wanted a handful of his best prospects to even start talking about mediocre returns.
So he kept them, and traded spare major-league parts instead.
I don't think it's a coincidence that Nick is pretty exclusively playing second base, though. I think he's still on the block. We show off one of the best 2B prospects in all the land, tearing up the bigs his first few weeks, and then see what his value is as a trade centerpiece himself. No throw-in now.
If he plays SS, then people will see some of the things he can't do (like master his footwork going into the hole to make a play). He plays like 2B is a piece of cake for him, and says in interviews that it is too. Plus fielder, power bat, middle of the infield? Yeah, he can make waves.
At least if he goes, we might get the right value for him...
But I'd rather he stay. Ackley has gone down and immediately remembered how to be an on-base machine with a high average, but if he forgets when he gets back then I'd hate to have traded his replacement off, unless Stanton is coming our way.
I mean, there's always Miller if Dustin can't get his act together...
Franklin's swagger is hard to match, though. This team needs less silent samurai like Ackley and Ichiro and more arrogance. Franklin and Seager swagger like gunslinger ballplayers, and Saunders is gettin' his mojo back in that regard too.
That's a hard commodity to come by, as hard as good on-field performance. Walking into Yankee Stadium like you own the joint is why we brought Raul, Morse and Morales here in the first place. Gotta have kids who are willing and able to do the same.
~G
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Rauuuuul
Was slugging .508 before his game-winning HR* in the first inning Tuesday. There have been a (very) few 41-year-olds, since WWII, who played well ...
- Stan Musial, 1962 - .330/.416/.508, finished 10th in MVP
- Ted Williams, 1960 - ran a 190 OPS+ (!!) in part-time play
- Willie Mays, 1971 - had a .400 OBP, without hitting much, 'cause they were too dumb to stop walking him
... but much more common is for 41-year-olds, even if they are 20+ year players, to be chickenfeathers at age 41. Frank Robinson hit .245 at 38, hit .237 at 39, hit .224 at 40 and retired. Hank Aaron hit .234, finished with an OPS+ a little below average.
.........
We commented in spring training that Rauuuul's bat was stunningly quick and short to the ball. He peers out at the incoming pitch, lets it travel deeeeep into the zone, and then WHHOOOOOM. Uncracks the bat like a whip. It's unpossible. It was unpossible in March and it remains so now. The man looks 32.
Even with that short throw and snaketongue bat, he still can (obviously) drive the ball over the fence; he's got 11 homers in, essentially, 25% of a season.
His strike zone numbers are down only a tiny bit. By all logic, he looks like he'll continue to be able to OPS+ 120 the entire season, if kept fresh and not Adam Kennedied.
Supposing the Mariners scrambled a comeback effort -- by cobbling together a 3-4-5 rotation -- then Bay and Ibanez would probably provide them a 2001 McLemore / Javier type of support crew.
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Nick Franklin
The 2-2 fastball that he clubbed was 94 MPH, and he smoked it straight to his pull field. This follows two offspeed pitches that he hit out previously.
Granted, if it had gone out, it would have been an extreme "Just Enough" homer. But it was a 3-iron howitzer and it came on one of the few quality strikes that anybody's been willing to throw him.
The kid waits and waits and waits and then the pitcher catches a decent part of the plate, and Franklin attacks. He is the inversion of Dustin Ackley, and don't kid yourself that's not what they're thinking down there.
............
Later in the game, he cued a medium-soft ground ball to the right of 2B, hustled up the line and ... beat out an impressive infield single. It goes to the question of the "thickness" of a player's overall game. That infield hit, off a SHORT infield throw, opened eyes.
... later, he got nabbed on a caught stealing, by an excellent throw. He showed the right dirt-dog disgust without being maudlin about it. (We're kidding, sort of.)
.............
Turning the double play, Franklin is WOW'ing everybody, has a Billy Martin-style arm at 2B, and again Dr. D asks the question, what is the story on his SS play?
.............
The postgame interview -- LOL -- had a Lenny Dykstra feel to it. Cutsie pie questions, game face reactions, kept talking about the win, refused to imply anything about his own rookie value.
Best first week that we've seen in a loooong time.
Dustin Ackley dropped his hat at second base, Nick Franklin picked it up, and I don't know how Ackley will ever get it back. We're not talking stats here. We're talking hardball on the infield dirt. Nick Franklin's first week is what managers DREAMMMM about when they grope around and grab for a AAA callup, you know what I'm saying?
It's just as well. There's nothing more important to Zduriencik than conveying the message that you have to earn your spot, right?
Magritte painted The Son of Man to make the point that we always want to see that which is not visible to us, and fail to appreciate our opportunity to study that which is visible to us. Sometimes those visible things in Safeco actually are less interesting than the objects hiding behind them...
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Comments
Since he says it's like a vacation there. Would hate to see him move out of his comfort zone to SS, make a few errors and start struggling. If he keeps hitting at 2B then Ackley becomes the trade bait. No way do I want Ackley bat at 1B or corner OF. Saunders is my CF, no room for him there. Morales/Morse hopefully 1B.
As for Franklin defense at SS I think the Mariners actions say they despise the thought of him at SS. You have a 2B of the future (who has not failed at this point) who was #2 pick in draft, invested millions. You have a high school SS that turns into one of your best hitting prospects. Instead of keeping him at SS or maybe 3B you move him to 2B directly behind one of the biggest and only obstacles (at the time) on the team. Moving him to a position where he was essentially blocked says to me you really hate him at SS. Luckily(?) hotshot 2B fails so you get to keep Franklin at his sweet spot. If Franklin had any shot to play SS you would think he would have continued to get every chance in the minors. They still might try him there but previous actions seem to strongly suggest against it.
Franklin "vacation" comment is very telling. We all feel great and relaxed on vacation. What is vacation the opposite of? Stressful work environment. Probably not exactly how Franklin feels about SS, but it isn't as comfortable for him in his own words.
I wonder if 3rd base was like a vacation to him, but he shifted to short for the challenge. Not sure, but I think Nick is made of similar stuff. I thought I'd miss Ackley's defense more than I have. Nick and Ackley patrolling the infield sounds like a dream ticket. But right now, If only one can be in our infield, I'd fix Ackley and send him in a trade. Nice "problem" to have.
They kept saying he didn't have the arm to play short. That seems silly on its face after watching the strength on DPs. Unless, i guess, he can't make the overhand throw you need from the hole.
I also can't figure where he generates his power. He's little. Guess I'll have to go back and look at the POTD examination.
"Best first week we've seen in a looooong time". Kid can play 2B on my team all day long. Exciting player to watch - maybe the start to getting some buzz back for the team.
B-R has him at 6-1, 195.
If so, he's bigger than Mays and Aaron were. They seemed to hit with some power.
Maybe the helmet makes him look smaller....it certainly looks huge.
Assuming Nick can keep hitting (which will become more of a challenge once teams throughout the league have had a chance to scout him and get a book on him), he will stay at second until Ryan gets traded. Hopefully Ryan will be able to keep hitting like he has over the last couple of weeks – if so there should be some demand for him by a playoff bound team by the trade deadline.
At that point I would assume they will place Ackley at 2B and Franklin will play SS.
Let’s say in a perfect world Ackley and Franklin are both able to maintain better than average hitting results at the plate thru the remainder of the season (and Franklin has proven he field the SS position). Also the M’s have also called up Miller in September and he has also demonstrated the ability to hit the ball. What do you do then?
For the start of 2014, I’d place Miller at SS, Franklin at 2B, and Ackley can rove between LF/CF, 1B, and 2B. If Miller and Franklin have continued to demonstrate they can handle their respective positions and perform at the plate, you should then be able to trade Ackley – assuming he shown he can continue to hit the ball. My preference would be to place Ackley in CF (assuming he has the arm strength), and keep him there as your CF and move Saunders to one of your corners (probably RF).
I know Saunders is fleet of foot now, however he is currently a fairly big man and as his body matures as he moves into his late 20’s – he will more than likely get physically bigger. And asking a big man to gallop around CF for 160 games, is a sure way to him down – adversely affecting performance, and making him susceptible to injury.
So to wrap it up, as the season progresses and heading into 2014 this is what I think would bring about the best results: trade Ryan, Miller at SS, Franklin at 2B, Ackley to CF, and Saunders in RF.
N.B. Visually Franklin just looks like a natural infielder. I applaud Ackley for his hard work and becoming a good defensive 2B (per defensive metrics) but I never thought he looked smooth/comfortable playing 2B and after watching Nick for just a few plays out the – my eyes are telling me that Nick plays the infield with a natural aplomb while Dustin although effective seems like he is ‘muscling’ his position or succeeding thru shear will. Maybe being required to play infield (or at least 2B) is having an effect at the plate – should he move to an easier position????
I don't need to rush Miller to the bigs. He could survive until next year's trading deadline in the minors. If we were to trade Ryan and move Franklin to SS, that's fine with me. Let Miller work on his D down in the minors for 12 months. We seem to believe he can stay there and Franklin can't, so make sure Brad CAN. Get a righty defensive specialist for the next couple of seasons (oh hey, isn't that Ryan? Get him an extension...) to back up both Miller and Franklin at SS/2B, and trade Ackley by next trade deadline.
If Ackley goes back to hitting even like he did last year he's a pretty good second baseman. If he gets back closer to his first half-season, that's awesome.
But I don't move anybody anywhere until I know what I have. Long-term Ackley success would be great. Same with Franklin. Miller could always epic-fail the way Ackley has while playing the harder defensive position. As the Ents would say, don't be hasty Master Hobbit.
I don't shuffle Ackley all over the field, though, not if we don't have to. If he's back up at the trading deadline then he has another year to get it right with the bat at second base without any further complications. If he does, and Miller is unstoppable, then Ackley can be traded (or Franklin can). If one of them isn't getting the job done, that's what Miller is for. Let him force the issue, don't part the Red Sea for him. Of course, a .900+ OPS as a minor league SS might be considered "forcing his way" anyway...
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Random thoughts:
- Miller's like a stork in a baseball uniform. Dude has a weird, angular body and looks like he should have played 60 years ago. Trying to think of guys like that at his position. Jay Bell maybe. LOL Nick Franklin. With him, Miller, Seager and Zunino, though, we're building our liferaft out of baseball rats, that's for sure.
- The last team to build a contender exclusively around the infield would be who, exactly? Because right now we're aiming for a 2015 with Felix, a bunch of young stud arms, and an offense powered by Seager, Frankin or Ackley, Miller, Zunino, and either Ji-Man Choi or this year's 1st rounder at 1B/DH. Right?
- Maybe we'll sign Choo in free agency, use Shin-Soo as Boras leverage and pay both Boras clients to make him keep Morales here. Choo, Morales and all the kids. We'd be very lefty, but pretty interesting. Just gotta figure out who "the kids" entails.
- If we were gonna try to keep BOTH Ackley and Franklin, AND add Miller to the team, then yes I think we'd have to move Ackley to CF. He played a handful of games there as a freshman in college, but that's it. It wasn't his HS position either, IIRC. So we'd need to send him to the AFL this offseason to work on it. It's easier than playing 2B, but I wouldn't have him try to figure it out in the middle of the season.
- But that only works if we don't plan to trade ANY of those guys. And not trading any of em basically means not doing any big trades period, because one of them is likely to be mandatory along with the pitching. Pitching gets hurt and useless, so teams want reliable hitting prospects with high ceilings (and high floors) in any mega-deal. Ackley still has a high floor. So do Franklin and Miller. If we want Stanton or ANY major trade asset, that's what happens. Better hope we sign some Boras clients instead if you want to have the CF conversion "problem."
~G
But ya, you were more queasy than most... in hindsight, it feels pretty sheepish to be thinking in terms of adding Franklin as the #2 player in any deal, except the mega-blockbuster you mentioned.
And another thumb on the scale, to take it more seriously, the idea that a player's value doubles or triples once he has a good month in the majors -
Bouncing around 3-4 positions and taking 450 AB's.
Would dovetail rather nicely against the problem of Scott Boras' greed, also.
Though they're kind of escaping me at the moment.
Supposing that Franklin is bottom 1/3 of the league, in terms of plays in the hole, that isn't the end of the discussion. It's just one minus to his game.
............
Still, great line from blissedj, "What's the opposite of a vacation? Stressful work enviro" ... :- )
In any given year, the '70's Dodgers tended to get two 130 years and two 100 years out of the infield ... that left them in a position to add the OF's du jour and have a deeeeep lineup...
Love the idea of Choo and Morales. Though would like to see somebody recall a few previous Boras "package deals." I know he likes to do them, but can't remember any right offhand...
Belanger was 6'1 170 lbs, G. Miller's listed at 6'2 185lbs. In the ballpark.
We've grown so use to seeing huge ball-players that we forget that Mays and Aaron both played at about 185.
That seems like an NBA media guide stat! The seven-footer who ends up being 6-9. FWIW. M's media guide lists him at 6-1, 180.
In either case, you're spot on about how that compares to earlier generations.Aaron and Mays, in particular, were tiny compared to today's players.
I'm in no hurry to trade Ackley out...or Franklin...if Ackley bounces back.
Keep 'em both. One of them is part of Doc's Dodger 10-Yr Infield (Franklin for me) and find a position for the other guy (Ackley for me). Ackley was .273-.348-.417/120 OPS+ his rookie year. that would play just fine in LF, wouldn't it? Bay is at 119 right now, Raul at 128. Those guys play just fine. I would have no problem with a bat like Ackley had his rookie year laying LF for me. Heck, platoon him with Romero if you need, to. A 120 OPS+ LF is a very nice asset.
So this is going to be the infield of Doc's Dodgers in the twenty-first-and-a-seventh century? Catered by Duck-fil-A, of course!
As I look at things right now the M's have very limited high value trading assets.
Their most valuable asset currently is Seager, he has value at 3B but even more as a 2B.
The next in line is Franklin (assuming he can maintain some semblance of his current hitting prowess). If he can keep hitting like he is then he would probably even top Seager in a few months.
Ackley has some value but until he can prove he can hit at the major league level for an extended time a trading partner will not value him as highly as maybe you or I would since he is on our roster - and Dustin is does not come as 'cheap' as Nick or Kyle especially when you factor in his performance over the 1.5 seasons.
Zunino - we are not trading him especially with our current catcher depth and he is not yet eligible to trade
And on the pitching front for starting pitchers Maurer crashed and burned on his first audition so his value is just so so.
Hultzen will need to prove his is healthy and more effective at getting hitters out at the major league level in order for his stock to rise.
Walker probably has the most potential value but since he is still at the AA level his value is severely discounted.
Although our minor league talent has drastically improved over the last couple of years. The talent that would headline a major trade is really limited to Seager or Franklin at the moment with Hultzen or Walker also potential headline candidates. Yes we would need to include other talented prospects in any major trade but as Z found out last off season unless a prospect has proven to have some success at the major league level then the value of that prospect is discounted.
Which I find somewhat ironic when you juxtapose this bias against the optimism / value that teams place in the draft.
Great one Bat! I'm a big Duck Dodger fan!
I think it was the 24th and 1/2 Century.
Beware the Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator.
Can that be our new nickname for 'Kuma, the destroyer of worlds?
Not really, not from deep. Go out in your backyard and try the underarm flip compared to the slide, set and throw. You just can't get enough on it although I suppose it'd be no slower getting the ball to first than the Jeter jump and throw. And he seems to have done ok. Bottom line is - how often do you even need that throw? And they seem set on Miller in any case.
Kuma nickname should be Marvin? ;-b