ML Spring Training Camps as 'Tryouts'


 ...........

 

Moe, with considerable justification, gives the PFFFT raspberry to Dr. D :- )


All the same, I'm not bothered by the idea that the M's couldn't possible score runs, even with a horrible/hacking Figgins leading off.  I am bothered by the  idea that Wedge seems to have simply annointed Figgins as his 3B/probable lead-off hitter before seeing him swing a bat against a live pitcher....and before watching Seager or Liddi do the same.

Well, if the goal were to evaluate unknown hitters and to select the most productive one going forward, that's what you might do:  hold a tryout and cut down, like in jayvee basketball.

Even so, it's tough to use ML spring training as tryout.  You're talking about 30-40 at-bats this March, as opposed to Figgins' 5,000 pro PA's and 3,000 minors PA's.  Most of these players have at least 2,000 pro at-bats, and now we're going to use 30 to decide who they are as hitters?

The offseason goal that Zduriencik selected was to infuse +2.0 to +3.0 WAR into the roster by creating a comfort zone for Figgins.  That's player development, as opposed to player evaluation.

............

True, a cold-blooded, baseball-only decision might have been to try to infuse those same WAR by flushing Figgins, and getting 2-3 WAR out of Seager or Liddi.  The M's decision, however, captured the goal of rescuing some of their $18M investment.  

Very possibly there are NL teams that have said, "if Figgins shows a bounceback in 2012, give us a call."  We remember George W. Bush saying one time that he didn't use his father as a resource, not AT ALL, because as a retired President, George H.W. Bush simply was no longer well-informed enough to comment intelligently on difficult geopolitical problems.  

As 'net rats, we have no idea what the trade market is with, and without, a Figgins bounceback.  I've got an inkling that if Figgins did hit okay for a month or two, then you could deal him to an NL team, and that teams have told Zduriencik that.  

............

There are times when spring training can legitimately provide "swing" information as to where a player's arc is, at the moment:

  • Can Trayvon see low breaking pitches now?
  • How is Mike Carp running out there in LF?
  • Can Gutierrez, if he gets an 88 fastball out and over, hit the ball ten rows deep or can he not?
  • Can Hisashi Iwakuma throw a baseball 89 miles an hour?
  • Can ML pitchers knock the bat out of Kawasaki's hands?
  • Does Casper Wells flinch on curve balls?

Questions like that might genuinely affect playing time in 2012.  Where a Chance Ruffin can win a job, or lose it, seems to be more in the zip of his fastball and the bite of his slider, rather than in his stats as such.

But as far as having a JV-style battle between Seager, Liddi, and Figgins, in three weeks' time against minor leaguers, that's a little tougher :- )

 

Comments

1

Nah, not at you Doc.  The PFFFFT was directed at the M's front office. You know that. 
My worst fear is that Figgins is only slightly better than last year.  But at least at that level of performance he is very quickly shuffled away into the dark of the night, or maybe utilityman limbo.
But the .250-.330-.310 Figgins also scares me because that Figgins is the one Wedge might  stick with until July or August.  That, too, is a very scary proposition. 
And I understand the jayvee tryout idea.  Your point is a good one. 
But Figgins has been, in essence, a jayvee player for two seasons.  A bad one, too.
With a Seager (or Liddi) in the wings, a tryout is all he should get.
moe

2
IcebreakerX's picture

Well, there is this possibility...
What if this isn't about Figgins batting first, but Ichiro batting third.
Ichiro has bigtime RISP and Runners On numbers and his prowess is well known throughout the league.
Now, few really believe Ichiro is totally done, but by shoving the entire context on Figgins, batting Ichiro third gives you two things... Everyone's looking at Figgins and Ichiro gets to quietly become the extra OBP motor with Ackley infront of Montero and Smoak. The other thing is, Ichiro is probably going to get better pitches to look at with Ackley on base (Figgins on base... hahahaha) than empty leadoff. 

3

We can hope that if Cincy sees Figgins doing reasonably well, while Rolen is not fit for duty full-time and Drew Stubbs continues the K's, they'll bite. I suspect they are one of the clubs that wanted to wait and see Figgins back at leadoff, since that is their need (they have Frazier and Francisco to back up 3rd). If so, maybe the agony will end soon and we will see Seager in both spots (3rd and leadoff) sooner than later. I also suspect we'll have to eat some salary for this year and won't get much back, but we'll be free to press the attack going forward. If Liddi or Francisco show power in the minors during the first half, or if Vinnie really has defensive improvement to show, the question will then become do we move Ichiro back to leadoff.

4

I'm one of Seager's biggest fans.  I think his actual power and the value of his doubles are extremely underappreciated amongst the current blog group consciousness.
That said -- I think Figgins leading off makes sense (as a 'starting point') based on the very simple reality that Seattle has no one in the entire organization with a better profile for actually being a legit leadoff hitter.
Ichiro has never been a patient - let's look at 5 pitches before we swing leadoff guy.  The notion of moving Ackley to leadoff has always (in my mind) been completely off the rails.  Ackley has been a high RBI guy, who has the ability to do whatever the situation calls for -- fairly screaming for 3rd in the lineup in the long run.
IMO, Ackley leading off would make as much sense as batting Smoak 2nd and asking him to bunt routinely.  It would go utterly and completely against the long-term development of Ackley the player - and be detrimental to the team both long and short term.
Figgins is the only guy in the org that is "clearly" a leadoff hitter - if he is doing what he did all those years before arriving in Seattle. 
There is also the not small chance that the club has grander plans for Seager and would prefer to send him down to AAA for a spell to work on something.  (Nah -- that can't be it.  It's not like (Carp) they've ever taken a mega-patient (Carp) prospect and sent him back to AAA to retool (Carp) his swing and turn him into a legit slugger).
If Figgins looks anything like normal in ST, then it wouldn't surprise me to see Seager in Tacoma and Liddi in the majors.  Maybe they want to tweak his swing.  Maybe they want to let him play SS full-time.  Maybe I'm whistling in the wind.  But, the main point here is that there are 1,000 variations on why they might "posture" that Figgins is default for leading off that are not a simple veteran entitlement perk - OR that they are completely writing off Seager.
Me?  I said I'll believe Ichiro isn't leading off when I see it.  That's still a month away.  I'll believe Figgins is leading off when I see it.  I get that absent actual games jumping at every peep from the org is what feeds hot stove time.  But I don't think Langerhans had lots of takers in the "who will be in the opening day lineup" last February.  Even if ST is not a "try out", there are certainly possibilities that events that occur between now and opening day will render today's speculation moot.

5
Lonnie of MC's picture

... if Seager goes to AAA he'll be spending most of his time at 2nd base (where he profiles nicely).  The most likely scenario is for Francisco Martinez, Liddi, and maybe Catricala sharing time at 3rd with Martinez getting the bulk of the innings.  Liddi will spend most of his time at 1st and The Cat will be patroling left field for the Rainiers.
Did I mention that most likely Franklin will be playing SS for the Rainiers?  That will be one heckuva infield to watch this year!

7

In a best-case, let's say that Figgins plays somewhat better than 2010, I could see them splitting Figgins' salary 50-50 for this year and maybe even better than that for 2013.  If they don't get a prospect back.
Keep it comin' Bat.  Not many guys we have that convey the on-field camera like you do.  Great stuff.

8

The 2012 Rainiers could be a LOT of fun to watch.  Awesome that we have our AAA team just a few highway exits down from the big club.
Possible scouting targets include Taijuan, Hultzen, (hopefully not) Paxton, Nick Franklin, Catricala, Liddi, F-Mart, Seager among others...

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