.
Echo'ing off the Shouts, naturally :- )
Mo' Dawg sez,
Boy, it's also too bad that Thames has never proven he can hit AAA pitching. He's got 595 AAA PA's. In his '11. '12, '13 stintsa at that level he's gone, .352-.423-.610, .330-.407-.528 & .343-.443-.549! He's slugged .446 in 495 MLB vR AB's. But dan those M's, they're "Quintiple Daring" him to prove he can hit. By the way, phx, the answer to your question is somehow related to some degree of stupidity. At least in regard to this issue, anyway The Raul over Thames issue, too. Our man crush on Smoak somehow locks on 8 games and forgets 1500 previous PA's. Remember Bill the Cat? "Ack Ack!" That's my new response to all things Raul and Andino and Smoak. "Ack Ack!!" It's not following the rules that make the best organizations, it's knowing when the rules have changed. The M's previous "rules" have become unmistakable wrong, in regards to Raul/Andino and Thames/Franklin. July wastes May and June. Ack Ack
The Mariners do seem to be walking way around the block to avoid Thames. It's got that feel to it, like he did something off-field to tick them off.
You realize that his career OPS+ in the majors is 96, and that's on the way up. As Mo' sez, he's got silo-hardened AAA victory behind him.
I don't much care about it one way or the other, but would be curious to know if they're freezing him out.
By the way, that nightmarish GIDP by Ryan last night? If you bring in Eric Thames and Showalter brings in a LOOGY ... Thames' platoon splits are fine. He doesn't sweat lefties.
SSI continues to suspect that Zduriencik wouldn't have the political capital right now to shed Ibanez. Could be wrong.
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If they simply don't consider him MLB material, that's fine, but then again, they owe him a chance at a career.
There are players in your org that --- > you don't see as having a big future. (Raul? Bay?) But then why is Thames here, if not to provide depth for the 25-man?
Clear your 40-man slot, and let Eric Thames pursue his career.
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PHXTerry sez,
Moe, IMO, the M's started the year with a plan for Franklin - something like we will consider bringing him up in July after he proves himself at AAA - and, given their bureaucratic nature, can't get themselves to deviate from that plan, regardless of radically changed circumstances. How else to explain the M's Brass inability to make the most obvious decisions, that would improve the team and win more games?
IMO, the M's organization currently is behaving like any bureaucratic organization in business, government, etc. Unfortunately I am familiar with the behavior of such organizations, which tend to 1) avoid accountability, 2) make decisions slowly, 3) admit mistakes with great reluctance, if ever, and 4) engage in spin and obfuscation in all public discussions of unpleasant issues. Such organizations are not: 1) nimble, 2) flexible, 3) capable of making "out-of-the-box" decisions, or 4) changing course rapidly. So I, for one, and going to relax and enjoy the M's ride with minimal expectation that obvious and needed changes will be made quickly.
Great minds think alike, Terry ... before you got here, Padna, Dr. D, and others spent a good amount of time exploring the Pro's and Con's of bureaucratic committees.
As you say, a single individual is far more agile than a committee is.
She's also more coherent. A committee isn't going to paint the Mona Lisa; it doesn't have intuition or Gillick-level judgment.
It's also limited by the fears of its most timid members.
There are many other Con's also ... there are Pro's. The U.S. Government was designed by Benjamin Franklin* to be a non-agile entity, and I'm daily thankful for that. Especially when I see an aircraft carrier.
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In fairness, Armstrong seems to have stepped back some, from his co-GM slot, when Gillick was the GM, and he seems to have done so, to some extent, with Zduriencik. How an org like that functions, behind closed doors, is always tough (or impossible) to read.
I'm with you Terry: I'd be surprised if Franklin's callup was NOT a committee decision.
8,000 fans per night, that can get a committee moving, though...
Doc, Agree with your opinion that GMZ does not have the political capital right now to shed Raul. The opportunity to kick Raul upstairs gracefully, saving everyone's face, was presented by the sick third base coach and the need for an additional member on the coaching staff. Opportunity missed.
Baker had some quotes from Wedge when they brought up Peguero. Basically, Wedge really hated Thames' defense and base running when he was up in 2012. Wedge said, paraphrasing, that Thames is working on it but he's not there yet.
Funny, that, since Raul has played the worst defense I can remember in Seattle.
You've got a Top-(Insert some relately low number here) prospect who has taken a whoopin' stick to AAA pitchers AND he happens to be able to decently* play a position that has become a black hole in your lineup.
He has also played the requisite # of games to get past the arb issue. The guy currently manning that position, BTW, is a replacement level type who came cheap and probably has no future with the club (Would anybody really scream if Andino/Ryan became Franklin/Triunfel?).
All this and it still takes a politburo type decision to do the obvious = the problem.
If Super Two is an issue, then Z should just say, "Franklin is here when the Super Two date has passed." Nick certainly deserves to know that (if he doesn't) and fans do, too.
If Super Two isn't an issue (and it isn't) then this whole scenario is some mysterious dance to music that only Z and Wedge and the brass can hear.
Or maybe it's not a mysterious dance, just a real ugly one. Remember Elaine's dance on Seinfeld? This one is that bizarre.
moe
I don't know where the whole "Raul the coach" thing is coming from. Lonnie asked Drayer about it in his podcast and she said that his life outside baseball is too rich. She postulated that when his playing days are done, he will be done with baseball.
Part of the reluctance to promote Franklin, IMO, stems from his unauthorized 6,500 calorie diet at Chick Fil A during the off season. The Bureaucratic Mind does not approve of lower level employees that take independent, unorthodox action -- regardless of the effectiveness of such action. Franklin's hitting has clearly improved since he bulked up on his own, but that doesn't matter to middle level bureaucratic types -- Franklin's out-of-the-box behavior cannot be rewarded with an earlier-than-planned call-up, for that would encourage other low-level employees to take independent action. So Franklin will just have to cool his heels for a while.
He had a lousy glove and was yucky on the basepaths, too.
I suppose he would get sentenced to hard labor in Tacoma, too.
OK, Thames might not be an All-Star. But he's better than the option we're keeping. Franklin has always been on a rocket. Now he's going all Ty Cobb on his competition. What more must he do? Is there a part of his game that the M's are insisting he improve on?
And these moves don't even touch the Smoak issue. Wedge and Z still think, evidently, his inner Mickey Mantle is about to show up. OK. As I sigh and shake my head I'll say, "Well at least you can make the other two moves!" C'mon!
And we haven't even spoke of the positional inflexability that Wedge/Z have forced upon this team. How about if we just sigh and say, "OK...but at least you can give us the other two!"
Raul's defense is worse than France's in '40. His punch is in that class, too.
moe
Raul's rich life outside baseball is a great opportunity for GMZ. He should call Raul into his office today and say: " I understand that you have this rich life outside of baseball. Starting today you get a chance to live it full time. Baseball is a young man's game and you've gotten too old. Thank you for services rendered. Please clean out your locker now."
I suppose we would have benched Prince Fielder if we had signed him.
BTW, I admit to a bias against Raul, as I thought it was a stupid signing from day one.
Gimme Franklin and I will shut up about Raul for a whole series.
Well, for two of the three games, anyway.
And Raul is a class act...no argument here. He just isn't doing us any good as a player.
I'm real curious to know what Drayer meant by that. I mean, the dude is 41 and still coming to the ballpark. Presumably, he's taken care of financially, so why keep playing when you are a shadow of what you used to be? My thinking has been that he's got his eye on a broadcasting career with the M's, and that's why he wanted to finish things out here. But that's just speculation on my part.
Don't buy it. I mean, it could be true, but I seriously doubt it. The dude is raking down there and this IS a baseball organization after all.
Fair enough, you're probably right. What reason(s) do you think have kept the M's Brass from promoting Franklin?
There have been times this year when I ponder in my shower why we swapped Delabar for Thames last year. If there is an issue with Thames' D and baserunning, the fact that these aspects of his game were below critical mass should have been known at the time of the acquisition. If they weren't known, that's a stunning indictment on this front office. If these AREN'T the issues I'd like to bloomin' know what it might be. Has anything in Thames' game changed since the start of 2012? Any hope that the culpability for this deep freeze lie with Thames instead of the suits at Safeco? Because, if it's on the suits, man, bad decisions are really starting to accumulate.
"Raul's defense is worse than France's in '40."
And I gotta ditto the comment. It's amazing what can keep you in the bigs if you play the game The Right Way according to The Org.
I have this theory that they overvalue defense. But then, if they don't like him at short, why keep playing him there? My thinking is that if they don't like him at short and they don't want to move Ackley off 2nd, then show him where the outfield is.
It could be that there's some magic number of at-bats he needs to reach before they believe his production is real. I guess I can sort of understand that, as much as I want to see him up here.
Where is this podcast you're referring to?
In trying to objectively analyze the decisions being made by the M's Brass, I always ask myself -- What Would Billy Beane Do? We know a couple of things -- Beane burns to win and he fixes roster problems by making moves until the problems are fixed, within the budget constraints under which he operates. When I think about the M's self-created problem of useless Raul and his $2.7M salary, the ridiculous lack of positional flexibility on the M's current roster, and the M's unwillingness to deploy useful assets like Thames and talented rookies like Franklin, I ask myself, What Would Billy Beane Do? -- and then I just laugh at the joke that the Mariner front office has become. If Billy Beane were here and in charge, these problems would be addressed in 24 hours and worked continually until they were solved. The first time Billy's manager said that 40 year old Raul Ibanez "deserves" to hit against lefty flame throwers with the game on the line, Billy would have a new manager on the bench.
By the way, Oakland attendance increased by ~3000 fans per game from 2010 to 2012; while the M's attendance decreased about ~4500 per game in the same time period. M's and A's attendance figures are identical now. Pretty soon, the M's may host a game and nobody will show up in the stands. Wonder how that will play on the new cable network -- just keep the cameras pointed at the field and nobody will know the difference, I suppose.
Lonnie has a pretty amazing run of podcasts the last two seasons. He's had Baker, Jeff Sullivan right before he left LL, G-Money, Drayer, some minor league announcer...it's really interesting series.
I think it's more Wedge than the suits.
What if they haven't given up on Thames? What if they called up Peggy to send a message to Thames? Wedge (I think that's who said it) said they liked Peguero's defense better just to send a message to Thames. We thought there were times when Thames wasn't hustling. That's the message that I saw. If that's the case and you're Thames don't you bust your butt from this point forward to prove to the front office that they are wrong.
Maybe I'm reading too much into it but that's sure what I'd take from what was said. The guy is tearing up AAA and his bat could be used for sure. I think the infield (SS) needs to be addressed before the outfield does though.
Ok ,I think we can officially take the boiling pot off the stove. Apparently there is no more water in the pot on Franklin diet or him being in the M’s pot in the first place.
Article today by Larry Stone debunks Geoff’s Frenchie baked soufflé portraying Franklin as a couch eating slouch that didn’t tell the teacher what he was doing during recess.
http://seattletimes.com/html/larrystone/2020923984_stone05.html
Apparently Franklin has greased AAA pitching with body fat at 9%....
Hey kid what was the name of that recipe again?