Seattle Sports Insider

Edgar. Is. Good.

M's offense #4 in baseball A.E. (anno Edgar)

Posted by

8/3/15

On June 21st, the Edgar assumed his Mt. Rushmore position on the top step. Gazing out at the field with a serene, optimistic chisel on his face. Granting ten days for his vibe to osmose, the M's offense has been #3 in baseball if you go by WAR. It's been #4 in baseball if you go by wRC+ (OPS+) or offensive WAR. It's gone from "Casey Kotchman - Endy Chavez" to "2015 Blue Jays" if you go by watching the games and reality.

Mike Zunino: from .155/.226/.295 to a ten-game hitting streak and a .525 slugging percentage the last two weeks.

Mark Trumbo: from .139/.171/.190 his first month here to .333/.379/.469 his second month here.

Jesus Montero: from crushing the PCL to crushing the AL. Well, okay. But you have to write in threes one way or another, so just move on.

Jay Buhner joined the booth a few games ago to talk about The Edgar's offensive Bansai tree, and therefore (since a fellow jock was in the booth) Mike Blowers got animated. The first gush they gushed was this: Edgar HAS BEEN a hitting coach since about 1995. Buhner and Blowers underlined this point in a convincing way: when they were playing, and a hitter was confused at the plate, the hitter would go sit down next to Edgar and he'd fix them. This is a point worth dwelling on, as you assess Edgar's likely results as a hitting coach. But we'll spare you the fifteen vertical empty paragraphs.

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The second point they made: that Edgar has a calming influence, that (Dr. D's words now) he radiates the feeling of "Slow Down. Don't Get Shrill. Everything's Cool." Would be interested to hear PGA-Keith's remarks as to how a caddie can do this for a PGA pro. A sense of CENTEREDNESS, of focus, is the state of mind an athlete seeks before the game slows down for him.

In aikido they characterize this as Keep One Point. You start here. "Before one can take another's balance from him, one must secure one's own balance." We trust that all SSI denizens grok the fact that Edgar is just about the ultimate in centeredness.

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The third point they made was another PGA-Keith law of gravity. Edgar has the gift of teaching in terms of --- > very simple drills and fixes.

For Zunino, it was the idea of keeping his eyes in the hitting area before and after his swing. He had his eyes up as the pitch was delivered, and was raising his eyes to follow the home run as he swung. Edgar got him to think in terms of locking his intent into the hitting area, and not admiring the theoretical flight of the ball he wanted. This also delivered the benefit of "keeping him behind the ball," preventing the lunge and chase.

As golfers will tell us, this was a mechanical tweak that is (1) feasible, in game, and (2) very powerful in terms of results per effort ratio.

For Trumbo, it was a "muscle memory" drill of putting the ball on a tee very low and outside. Trumbo swung at these low-away teeballs until his hands were sore and he couldn't remember the wrong way any more.

Lenny Wilkens

Moe, Lonnie, and Terry probably remember when Lenny Wilkens -- a Hall of Famer on the court and a Hall of Fame nice guy -- took over the Sonics and become an icon in Seattle. How cool would it be if Edgar became Seattle's baseball Lenny Wilkens.

Sports coaching boils down to (1) state-of-mind and (2) teaching what an athlete can actually apply. Usually this means a 3rd-grade lesson rather than a college lesson. As they say in chess, "It's not what you KNOW. It's what you can DO." A class-C chessplayer might "know" that Knights work better with Queens than Bishops work with Queens. But will you ever see a game from him in which he demonstrates a win from this principle? No. Edgar focuses on what a player can do, and what he might be able to do one week from now.

Here's a question for you. Don't know the answer for sure. If Edgar takes over as manager, and they put a hitting coach in with him ... he can still lead the work with hitters, can't he? Am pretty sure that Lou did. And Paul Molitor, who is the most-comparable coach to Edgar the last ten years, jumped quickly from hitting coach* to field manager. Excellent results, too: the Twinkies were 70-92 last year, but have surged to 54-50 immediately after his hiring.

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Anyway. Edgar isn't about sophisticated analysis, for its own sake. He's a throwback: he teaches from the place where the athletes are. This is something very remarkable. And you like the man, too.

Enjoy,

Dr D

Blog:

Aiki Mechanics

Comments

"It's what you can do"

Among the truest words ever spoken, in terms of the stuff that Edgar is "coaching."

I am convinced that a "one size fits all" approach to hitting a baseball...or pitching one, does not work. Batters, in our case, are individuals. The same drills that help one hitter will not help another.....or won't necessarily help. Asking Zunino to swing the bat like Griffey, Jr. or Ichiro is silly. They bring differnt bodies, different kinesthetic awarenesses (different feel), and see things differently, too. The most important teaching concept is in understanding all that. The 2nd most is in making simple changes.

By all accounts Edgar has those two things in spades.

But, ahem, I'm not yet willing to say he's totally responsible for all good things that are happening with M's bats. For most of our players there had to be some PROgression to the mean. Trumbo, Zunino, Jackson, Cano all were below what you might expect from them. Really only Smith and Cruz were at or above expected (and established) levels of performance. The others were bound to improve anyway....

But the fact that 3 of those guys have improved dramatically, and quickly, under Edgar's eye indicates that it isn't all due to run of the mill luck.

Miller hasn't taken off. LoMo has stunk it up. Taylor didn't hit. Ackley showed no improvement. No blame on Edgar, you understand....

He's helped, and it is probably less due to specific drills or tweaks and more due to a calm and confident approach. Sometimes the most important thing a swing/hitting coach can say is, "Hey, you're not broken at all." Those kind of words, from the right sage, can be more powerful than any specific tweak.

Put Edgar in the manager's seat? You'll get no beef from me....

Progression to the mean no doubt

The two guys he has visibly fixed = Zunino and Trumbo. For the rest of it, his influence has been subtle. There's only so much that a coach can do to turn an ocean liner.

Our article is intended to provide some concrete assessment of what Edgar is as a hitting coach. Which, it's not only obvious goodness, it's also to Dr. D's taste.

/cosign all that m'friend. Much appreciated.

Shouldn't be understated

He's brought a certain calming gravitas to the clubhouse. And a confidence. And he's helped guys.

I doubt Edgar WANTS the

I doubt Edgar WANTS the pressures of being The Skipper (though a great bench coach could certainly help). I like the IDEA of it, but I doubt that he wants the headache. I think he's happy where he's at for now.

HOWEVER, a couple of weeks farther into his hitting coach tenure we have to reckon a little more seriously with the possible relationship between his entrance on the scene and the M's surge in hitting. It occurs to me that we've been facing lesser pitching staffs overall in the last month, more AL East and Central and less AL West. The run ENVIRONMENT playing the Blue Jays and Tigers is a WEE bit different than our opponents earlier in the season. That said, even accounting for that it's looking like there might (must?) be something here worth paying attention to. It would be foolish NOT to consider it.

So whaddaya know. Now I kinda AGREE with what you were saying a couple of weeks ago, Doc, when I demurred.

He who answers a matter before he hears it

It is a folly and a shame unto him. :- ) - Prov. 18:13

One of your strongest attributes DaddyO. We have more info than we did two weeks ago, and will have more info four weeks on. :: daps ::

SSI's task, we hope, is to chip in on the data available -

Another of our tasks in the ARTICLES, though, is to provide tomorrow's news today, though that task is solidly in the Tongue In Cheek category ... see jemanji in the comments for the more Prov. 18:13 version of Dr. D ...

Trade for Walt Hazzard

Lenny Wilkens came to Seattle for Walt Hazzard. I show my age here. I was playing a lot of hoops then and loved to watch Wilkens drive the lane, fake high, go low to draw the foul. Always calm. Always under control. Ideal for a coach in this age I think. Edgar is the baseball mirror of Wilkens. I have no idea of LMC except you guys talking on here but I have to wonder if there is so much obvious respect for Edgar that it has to keep him on his toes to be better and not play the jerk-type manager. I like Walt Hazzard but amazing what the right trade can do.

Had NO idea

You were of my generation Jeff. You sent the kiddies scurrying for the wiki on Walt Hazzard :- )

Thanks for the visual on Lenny's signature drive, too. That guy had a unique game, smooth as satin on the eyes.

Lenny W!!!

Smooth as satin indeed!!! I remember the Sonic's first season I went with my Dad to one game moved to HecEd against the powerful 76'ers with Wilt and company. We were right on the floor and I can remember handing the ball back to the giant. Back in the days of no traveling, actual dribbling and even bounce passes!

Went to the game in Denver last night Jeff. First Rockies game in a long time since getting freebie for coaches. Fun to see Felix throw his 89-90 mph change ups. Good swings against the Rockies pathetic pitching staff! I have this to say to all the frustrated M's fans who thought this was the year.....be thankful you are not one of the Rockies faithful!!!!

Wish you had been here to enjoy!!!

Edgar

Personally, I would prefer Edgar remain as hitting coach forever, or at least as long as he wants the job, rather than giving him the manager job next year or the year after. Managers are hired to be fired, but I could see Edgar in a special role within the organization that bridges managers. When a new manager is hired, that guy knows coming in that Edgar is the hitting coach and that's just the way it is.

Especially in Seattle that could work

Most managers with clout want their own entourage, but the M's are not shy about laying down conditions like that. And very few managers want to go up against the guy whose name is on the street outside :- )

Something else to consider

Something else to consider is that maybe it's time that the traditional coaching staff structure in MLB was on the receiving end of some innovation. Why can't the hitting coach position be more of an organizational role?