Dan Vogelbach and David Ortiz
what, was Lou Gehrig not available Doc?


Wishhiker sez,


I figure the absolute ceiling comp for Vogelbach might be Ortiz, even though it's unlikely he approaches that career.  I've got zero expectation that he becomes the next Ortiz, just saying that seems like the peak of his family.


(1) In the "Aiki-Doc" :: rolls eyes, winks :: article, we mentioned the raw power on the slash-homer down the 3B line?  At the 3:45 mark on this video?  I was WONDERING!! where I saw that swing before.  That's exactly where!  Thanks Wishhiker.


(2) And as you bring up David Ortiz, he's another guy with the Ichiro ability to slow down a swing, reach over a table edge and square a ball up to LF.  From the standpoint of his movements in the batter's box, Ortiz really is the BEST archetype of any I can think of.


(3)  Here is Ortiz' minor league line.  Compelling similarities, such as the weight and the spotty HR totals.  

Of course the Seattle Mariners powerflushed David Ortiz at age 22, the moment before he consolidated his power at age 23.


(4) Exactly everybody knows the caveat emptor:  Ortiz is one of baseball's great late bloomers (and one of its most surprising age 35-40 dominators).  So he's an odd duck.  You don't compare every 87 MPH lefty to Jamie Moyer, as Wishhiker noted.

Little anecdote:  Bill James (who works for the Red Sox) loves David Ortiz to death, even referring to him as this generation's manifestation of Babe Ruth.  Point is, it's hard to overstate just how much damage a DH can do if everything breaks right.  

... oh, right, we're in Seattle.  Folks probably get that.  Speaking of which, Edgar at age 23 was repeating AA with a .264/.383/.390 slash line.  Seemed like all he had going for him was his refusal to swing at a ball.

Late bloomers who hit for accuracy first and for power later.  You wouldn't rule out the possibility of the Cubs regretting this trade for the next 10, 15 years.  

Fun stuff,




It's hard to compare any of today's kids to the very best players from the PED era because some of those top-ends were roid enhanced, and we don't really know which ones.  Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, Palmeiro?  Obviously.  Biggio, Bagwell, even Gar? Suspicious careers, with Biggio hitting for more homers from 38-40 than from 23-27 and Edgar having one of the best seasons ever for a 38 year old (until it was surpassed by PED users like Bonds coming along behind him).

Ortiz is in the in-between category as suspiciously-obvious, I guess.  He was mentioned in a report, complained viciously that it was unfair, and then of course continued merrily along hitting like a roider.  He's putting up the best season of his stats-packed career at age 40. 

The swing is reminiscent of Big Papi, but what does that swing produce in the Safe and without the Cream and the Clear (or whatever the kids are using these days)  I'd take the clean version of that profile and be really happy.  Let's hope that's it.  And then I'll hope that Boston's version gets in the HOF and clears the way for Gar with the vet committee, I suppose.

The times were (are?) the times, and Ortiz has had a HOF career.


We've got the fact that RBI numbers excellent in the 1950's are different from the 1980's from the 2000's.  Ortiz' .600 SLG averages might be .500 SLG averages for Vogelbach, but Vogue might win as many games for his team peer-to-peer.

That's first principles for you of course G but, just for those SSI denizens who are more casual readers.

You addressed that with the pre-response "we don't know which ones."  Very true, meaning Ortiz might have been more of an outlier than it's possible to be in the 2020's, even though half or more of the RBI guys around him were and are also roided up, like Cruz reportedly is.

Still got the Edgar and Papi *skills* looming.  Vogue is a big, big dude and I hear the bat looks like a toothpick in his hands ...

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