Trade Market for the M's Young Pitching
Young GM learns the bald GM will cough up Erasmo


Pineda wasn't dealt until *after* the standout rookie season. The M's (and Safeco) have mostly had little trouble getting AAA pitchers over the hump to be successful Major Leaguers. This is a tremendous burden for other teams, often taking multiple seasons and hundreds of mediocre innings. I'm not sure we can get Montero if we're trying to deal Pineda without the Major League track record. *IF* we deal any of the Big 3, it should be after Major League success so we can get maximum return. - Justin

Every time there's a Justin sighting, I get to parlay a high-traffic article out of it.  We're definitely going to need more posts on AAA and NPB hotshots to draw him out.

We mentioned in the original post, that Pineda was traded a year later -- and also mentioned the fact that NYY offered us Ivan Nova in addition to ['anybody in baseball,' that being the minors' best hitter, a catcher, who'd already splashed in the majors], for Pineda.

But I hadn't thought of it this way until Justin said it:  give Paxton the easy Safeco year, as a LHP no less, and his value is WAY up in the minds of suitors.  (SSI is the only place that thinks pretty close to the same of James Paxton before and after his rookie year.)  Send an exciting, 9-10, 3.74 starter with 9K per game through the Safeco transmogrifier and you can THEN trade them for --- > anybody in the majors.  Apparently with booty coming back.

In case anybody needs a little perspective on what Paxtons, Hultzens, and Taijuans are worth, here is a May 2012 comment from our fave Red Sox exec:


Who is the top pitching prospect in AAA today?

Asked by: foobrien

Answered: 5/30/2012


No idea.   That's a fantasy baseball question, as opposed to a real life baseball question.   In fantasy baseball you need to know stuff like that because you want to "claim" those guys as soon as they set foot in The Show.    In real life it doesn't make any difference because


a)  whoever he is, you can't trade for him,

b)  whoever he is, he'll be in the majors in two weeks, and

c)  once he gets to the majors he will be no different than any of the other 40 young pitchers with great arms who are trying to establish themselves, each of whom spent three weeks as a hotshot prospect in AAA.


"Sexy" ML-ready pitching prospects -- whether they are Tim Linececum or just another schlub; see James' line c) -- are more valuable than gold bullion in the circles in which real GM's run.  M's fans are fretting about any perceived chinks in the armor for Paxton and Hultzen.  That will not be the case with GM's.  To GM's, you can't trade for pitchers like James Paxton, to the extent that they don't even worry about it.

The account of the Cashman-Zduriencik talks had this flavor.  "Who in our org would you need if we were going to talk about Montero, other than Felix?"  ... "Well, there's really only one guy, Jack" .... salesman pause while Z braces himself ... if you're going to bring up Montero, that gives me the license to name your best young pitcher.

Without a doubt, a year's worth of 9-10, 3.74, 8.9K major league performance for Paxton and you could cash him in for Stanton, Lawrie, Myers or somebody like that, and possibly also receive an Ivan Nova type into the bargain.  My question is whether you could pretty much do it now, without the Nova part of it?  And I don't know the answer to that.


One thing is:  Erasmo Ramirez has pitched in the majors, and GM's will be well aware of information like this.  Fans aren't electrified by him at this point.  GM's, far more savvy to stardom that hasn't yet registered in full-season stats leaderboards, definitely will be.  I wouldn't be surprised at ANY trade that was going to involve Erasmo Ramirez.






¡El doctor de béisbol se ha vuelto loco! As they say in Nicaragua. Erasmo is better than billed in every conceivable way. Command, Stuff, makeup, intelligence, all outlandishly good. Rookie pitches 8 innings of 1 run ball? Who does he think he is? Felix? I thought there was a rule that all young pitchers throw no more than 5 innings until their thirtieth birthday. Since when do short 22 year olds from Nicaragua break this rule?
JZ should trade some of those guys in the minor leagues who haven't demolished the Blue Jays and the Orioles.

M-Pops's picture

What kind of deal would you be happy with Z making? No more Fister "hauls" - I am hopful that Z learned his lesson with that one. Tough to imagine a trade where the BPIND comes to the M's.
Not sure. Dombrowski was supposed to be hot for Fister at last season's deadline. Not sure that Z took full advantage or that situation :-/ Even if a GM is really excited about ER, as Dombrowski was for Fister, if all we can expect is another grab bag of fairly useful pieces, my vote is to keep Erasmo.
Mets are reportedly shopping Ike Davis; what are people's thoughts on him? Erasmo+Smoak for Ike?
I want to see more of ER, but if Z needs to keep the track greased for his hand-picked hurlers than I would like to see Ramirez go in a deal that brings an impact starter back.

Von Fricke's picture

He pitches a lot like Medlen in my eyes. Works off his change and throws to all sides of the plate. Thing is, Medlan tops out at 91, ERam "works" at 93-94 at least. He could be special.


Cameron with an interesting idea over at USSM: Montero for Davis plus. I like Montero, but he is indeed starting to look just a tad positionally obsolete. On the other hand, if you could get Davis while keeping Montero, you're set for life: Jaso and Davis maul righties, Montero mashes lefties, presumably Zunino has some kind of platoon split. Four to make three at 1B/C/DH, bench one of the guys with the platoon disadvantage and keep him as a pinch hitter? Me gusta.
Mets don't want Smoak, though. The whole reason they're open to trading Davis is because Duda's an absolute butcher with the glove in left field and he needs to move to first so that he can stop being the biggest defensive liability of the last ten years. Smoak hasn't shown he's better than Duda, and he can't play the OF, so probably zero interest there. They aren't in any desperate need of rotation help, either, with Harvey and Wheeler coming up. Mostly they need a catcher who can hit, at all, maybe some OF depth, and bullpenners. A more realistic proposition might go Pryor, Marder, Wells for Davis. I feel like that's a slight overpay by the Mariners. I like Wells--he's our only RH OF bat, even if he does strike out too much, but if they want a defender who can hit some I doubt you can sell them on Robinson, Thames or Peguero. Maybe Liddi can get decent at LF for us and replace Wells' offensive production. Alternately, Z could include Guti in the deal, but then he's gotta go find two extra starting outfielders.


Just read that article and as usual, could barely restrain myself from shouting at the screen. AHe ignores every possible point of view beyond his own. I wouldn't have a huge problem with trading Montero, but because I think he's -10 on the basepaths more than because we have Jaso and Zunino. Counting Zunino as already penciled in at C for next year is foolhardy, saying Jaso has proven himself a quality catcher while Montero has embarassed himself off the position is innaccurate, and comparing him to a pool of 20 players using stats without even considering time period, physique, or position is silly.
What's more, the org seems to have been putting a big focus on character since the Figgins, Griffey, and Lueke snaffoos, so I don't think Davis or Morrison would be high on Z's target list regardless.
Personally, I wouldn't trade Montero until I was 100% positive Zunino is going to stick in the Majors, and then only for an Allen Craig type return. That may seem greedy, but we have other pieces that could acquire a Davis level talent, like you suggested.
This rant is directed entirely at Dave Cameron, no rage meant for you 13.


You can correct me if I'm wrong you guys, since I genuinely do read DC only rarely, but my impression has been that he scoffed at Montero as C when the deal was made, and has been married to the position ever since.
Perhaps Jesus Montero really is a hopeless case as a defensive catcher.  How would a blogger like me, or him, be in a position to know that?  Roger Hansen doesn't know it.  How would he?
I mean the question literally, not rhetorically, and any USSM-friendly lurker is invited to answer.  How would a blogger be acquainted with the defensive intricacies of catching, especially if he's a non-athlete?  Yet the "Montero will not catch" edict seems to be delivered with the authority of Moses coming down the mountain with the tablets.
I'm curious.  Do the obsequious commenters at USSM ever ask him how he knows about this specific issue, projecting a defensive catcher's improvement?  The commenters are, as a group, super-smart.  Why the failure to follow on the rationale?  Or maybe they do, I dunno.  
I'll bet you that Zduricik and Hansen ask themselves how Cameron would be in a position to know that.
... btw, we watered down your subject title just a tadbit Mal.  Not that you did a thing wrong.  If that's okay.


I was subconsciously assuming Erasmo in a Wil Myers *type* of deal.  But the Fister scenario brings a sudden cold shower.
... I don't expect many more Fister, Bedard situations.  Erasmo is "Zduriencik's" guy.  He doesn't have many more ex-regime holdovers to powerflush.


He gets asked plenty, but he's never taken the time to explain why he thinks Montero won't improve, other than that right now he's a worse defensive catcher than Olivo by passed balls, wild pitches, and caught stealings (which is bad). I, and I think most of the USSM commentariat, still project Montero to improve behind the plate, but you know DC: when he picks a stand, he sticks to it.

M's Watcher's picture

True to the current political season, I don't like Ike. Is he better than a healthy Carp, which we haven't seen all year? He certainly is not worth losing Montero. We can hope that Montero is improving against RHP, but I don't see evidence that Ike will ever hit lefties. At best, Ike is a platoon middling/low BA hitter with power. Keep your powder dry for a better opportunity.


Yeah. Montero may have a great bat but boy is he the worst baserunner. Any of you stat guys have any numbers to put on his base running this year like the ones we had for Ichiro? Those numbers probably don't reflect the additional possibility of clogging the basepaths hindering trailing runners from advancing. I'd be ok with moving him for the right haul (it would have to be a good haul like Hultzen + Montero + etc for Stanton of something).

USSM-friendly lurker's picture

I think his point here is not that Montero can't catch, it's that Zunino/Jaso can probably catch better, such that he's more valuable to another org which wants him to stay behind the plate. If he's more valuable to somebody else than to you, then you could theoretically flip him for something that's more valuable to you than somebody else, if a deal like that is out there.
I get the he's got a longstanding viewpoint that Montero can't/won't catch, but I don't think this piece suffers from that bias; rather, it's more about exploring an alternative idea for maximizing the ROI on a talented young major league hitter.


Then he knows better.  His own site has Montero at -4 defensive runs, career, and since when does he not simply subtract defensive runs from overall WAR?  Any fielder at -4 runs obviously has no future at the position?
No, if PB/WP and CS is the basis of that, then it obviously insufficient basis.  I'm guessing that 100.00% of readers here would say, "Oh, come on already.  Passed balls and caught stealings worth four runs?"  And of course those are the two categories at which a rookie can be expected to get better.
Not wanting to direct attention to some other blog author, but this is a major point of Mariners debate, whether Montero could catch.  Those demanding that he not do so, should present their evidence, don't you think?


We'd pay you to stick around UFL.  You'd upgrade the quality of our phantom-debates by several yards :- )  Seriously, what a pleasure to read a surgically-calm debate response.  Thanks very much.
If those were his points, that Mike Zunino were better defensively (we all presume that) ....
And that *since Zunino's and Jaso's emergences* now Jesus Montero will not catch much ...
And that other teams, eager to get Montero behind the plate, might now pay us $1.15 on the dollar for him -- or that we can get $1.00 and configure the roster better --
Then definitely.  Let's see the $1.15 packages (or roster config packages) available.  Is Ike Davis worth a good bit more than Jesus Montero, DH/1B?  I don't follow the NL.  $1.15 on a guy Jay-Z comp'ed to Albert Pujuols might be a little tough to come by :- ) so now the disconnect might be that Zduriencik thinks Jesus Montero is a big flippin' deal and Cameron doesn't think he is?


Man, I wince every time he hits a hot shot to the SS.  This kid could run some Jim Rice-level GIDP totals.  Seriously.
I think his baserunning and GIDP's are going to *at least* cancel a hidden offensive benefit to him -- his loooooonnnnggggg singles, the ones that should be doubles.  A ton of Montero's 1B's are going to move runners around the bases as if they had been doubles.
Wild guesstimate here:  the running *with GIDP's* are going to be -2.0x to his "extra RBI" +1.0x.  But at least it will buffer the hit some?


Ike Davis and his 2012 Valley Fever Affected Season = Carlos Guillen and his TB Affected Season, IMO.
I expect Ike to have a really good year next year. As I said before, when we drafted Zunino it put us in an awkward position with Montero. He's been terrible offensively at DH, but crushes it as a catcher. He's not good at Safeco, as can be expected from a righty, but we need SOME righties. Smoak was the righty lynchpin in this offense, and without him we're incredibly susceptible to lefty pitchers, who also btw KILL IT at Safeco. Of course, if you look at our lefty-righty splits they were basically even this year, which is terrifying for how left-handed our lineup is, but still.
We can't put 9 lefties in the lineup. Montero's one of our only righties worth much at the plate, but he's not hitting like a first baseman. He's hitting like a good-hitting future catcher, expecially since he's been bad at DH. If he can't catch, he's not worth nearly as much currently.
Would I trade Montero + an arm for Davis? Yes - based on Zunino + Jaso at catcher, I feel we sort of have to. It would slot Carp or Smoak in at DH, but with DH having been an awful position for us this year that's not a bad thing to stick a 1B bat there either.
We need a RH outfielder then, though, because Ryan and Guti can't be the only righties in the lineup.
Trade for Montero for Davis, sign Swisher (switch-hitter), promote Zunino and go to war with that lineup? Ackley / Gutierrez / Davis / Swisher / Seager / Zunino / Saunders / Wells / Ryan against lefties, with Carp and Jaso stepping in against righties? It doesn't look like a world-beating lineup, but it has potential.
One of these years potential offense has to turn into actual offense, right?
If we don't trade Montero for a 1B then it looks like Montero needs to become at least a part-time 1B. Zunino's not gonna get moved off catcher that easily, and for all his awesomeness this year we're still using Jaso basically as a platoon player. I assume we're hoping playing in the field more will let Montero post more .840 OPS marks like he has as a catcher instead of the .580 hairball he's coughing up as a DH.
We can stall Zunino in AAA for a bit to let the Jaso/Montero thing play out longer. We don't have to rush Mike. But if Zunino really is a Posey-level bat, how long do we keep him in the minors because of positional congestion?
We need to figure out what to do about Montero within the year. It'd be great if he'd make it easy on us and become a monster-hitting 1B/DH, but if he doesn't...that's trouble. Especially given what we paid for him. If he can't catch for us then I would trade him as a catcher while he still has that value.


But I'd want a 140 OPS+ first baseman back for Jesus Montero and his long stretch of club-controls years.
Judging by the fact that Jack Zduriencik brought up Albert Pujols, I'm guessing he agrees.  Is Ike Davis an uber-prospect?


Then in concept I've got no problem with the suggestion.  Assumption was that Montero was being comp'ed to another "undervalued" WAR commodity who gets credited with 15 runs defensively and collected 5 WAR for a moment, without having any talent, such as Chone Figgins.
But if Ike Davis is legitimately Carlos Delgado, then sure.  Mike Zunino's emergence, and John Jaso's, have changed the landscape in Seattle.  Trade scenarios based on THAT have traction.


Drayer reported that Montero will have a very specific offseason regimen (presumably designed with Dr. Elliot, though she didn't mention that) designed to smooth out his running style and improve his speed.
She also reported that he will work at 1b defense because Wedge wants "three ways to get him in the lineup" (DH, C, 1b).
So maybe we don't assess Montero's speed value (negative value) or total defensive value just yet.  A 1b/DH who can also catch is a different proposition from a pure 1b/DH guy, although admittedly different from an everyday C.
And, trading Montero for anyone is a dicey proposition at this point.
He's two full years younger than Seager and Ackley.  One full year younger than Stefen Romero, the guy everyone loves because he nailed it in AA.  Most of the guys his age in the system were at High Desert (e.g., Miller, Marder, Landry).
You like what Zunino did in AA at 21?  Montero did it in AAA at 20.  Power, walks, low K% ... the whole nine yards.
I'm completely unconvinced that you think of Montero like he's just another generic MLB bat you lump into an Ike Davis trade.
Sorry that he's not Miggy yet, but only a very small handful are.  You trade Felix after going 9-11, 3.45 at age 22, because he wasn't as good as Tom Seaver was at 22?
Actually, I think Cameron's chart proves the opposite of his point, FWIW.


People who were or probably will be awesomer than Montero at age 22:
Tier 1:
A-Rod, .310 .360 .560 42 home runs
Ken Griffey Jr., .308 .361 .535 27 home runs
Other hall of fame guys like that.
Giancarlo Stanton, .283 .354 .595 34 home runs
Bryce Harper, Not yet completed
Mike Trout, Not yet completed
Tier 2:
Barry Bonds, .261 .329 .492 25 home runs
Justin Upton, .273 .365.442 17 home runs
Freddy Freeman, .265 .347 .458 20 home runs
Jay Bruce .223 .303 .470 22 home runs
Andrew Mccutcheon .286 .365 .471 12 home runs
Starlin Castro .285 .322 .431 14 home runs, assuming he hits one more on the season
Brett Lawrie, .274 .319 .403  10 home runs assuming he hits one more on the season
Jesus Montero .261 .298 .392 16 home runs, assuming he hits one more on the season
Guys who did about the same: 
Elvis Andrus .279, .347, .364 5 home runs (I'd take 50 points of slugging over 50 points of OBP but I'd take an everyday shortstop over a half time catcher).
Guys who did worse at 22:
Mike Moustakas .263 .309 .367 5 home runs
So, We can see that Jesus Montero needs to step it up to get on first ballot hall of fame track.  To do that, he needs to double his home runs and plus his average a little bit.  Sounds easy right?  
Aside from not yet proving to be one of the best players ever, Montero has not dissapointed.  Notice that most of the Tier 2 guys are close to the best player on their respective team.  Montero fits right in with these guys, and they are all going places.

Von's picture

Theoretically, you can replace any of the top 4 with this Junes draft pick. If a trade can bring in a cost controlled hitter, I'd do it. Erasmos emergence has created a window of opportunity to cash in your chips. I'd trade Hultzen, or Paxton if it brings in another blue chip hitter. I'd target Castenello. Give Detroit Hultzen/Paxton and ???? To get it done. Sign me up for a 21 year old 3B that we have for 6+ years.


But that doesn't mean we shouldn't consider it.
Montero has 3 things going against him as a Mariner:
1) we're not letting him catch.  He DH'ed 73 times and caught only 52 games.  We drafted the mega-catcher of the future who is also right-handed.  Jaso caught a higher percentage of the games he played in than Montero, and Felix loves throwing to Jaso it seems.  The odds of Jesus being a full-time catcher are at "none" and falling right now.
2) He's hasn't hit if he's not catching.  That's sort of a problem.  Jaso hit better as a catcher too, but not THAT much better.  Maybe Jesus just needs more time to figure out how to hit while DHing, or to play some first base and hit there.  His bat is what carries him anyway, but the question is whether it can carry him if he's not at a glove position.  If he can only hit like Mike Carp or Casper Wells and he's not catching then his value both to us and in trade plummets.
3) He hasn't shown any early signs of defeating Safeco as a righty.  If Beltre blew out his knee and we'd had to move him to first base, would we have been comfortable doing that?
Beltre's OPS+ numbers as an M: 93, 105, 112, 109, 83.
Beltre's 4 years around his M's tenure: 163, 141, 131, 136. 
The man hit .253/.305/.412/.717 in the Safe for his career and OPSed .967 - yes, 250 points higher - in Arlington.  Beltre's an all-time great in the right park, but that park wasn't this one. Is Montero like that?  Is he a hitter who will be a 6 WAR destroyer at a glove position somewhere else, and a 2-3 WAR "okay" hitter here at catcher if we even let him play there?
I like Montero.  I think he should be allowed to catch 90+ games a year and DH or 1B 60.  I've always thought he was V-Mart, and Victor Martinez is one heckuva hitter.  But Victor is also a switch-hitter, and Montero doesn't have that benefit.  His Safeco Hit Chart isn't exactly swimming with blue dots up against the fence in right field.  Most of the RH batters who've been successful in the Safe could hit the ball hard to the other way.
The call on whether to trade Montero is based on whether we (or others) think he's a catcher, and whether we think he can hit here if he's not a catcher. Piazza fought for years to stay at catcher, and kept proving that his bat would overcome any defensive deficiencies, real or imagined.  Montero is likely in for the same fight.  I dunno if he can win that fight here with Accepted Catcher Zunino set to arrive sometime in the next year.  So we either need to be sure Montero's cool with (and can be successful) playing 1B/DH or we need to trade him.  An unhappy player struggling to be productive in his unfair home park and pissed off at his own org for not believing in him behind the plate is not a recipe for success.
Which was a reason I was annoyed at the Zunino pick in the first place.  Yes, having too many good hitters for a position is a good problem to have much of the time, but it would have been a lot more convenient if Zunino played a different position.  Now we have to figure out how to navigate out of that constraint.


The thing is, the Mariners really don't need their lineup to be world-beating with the bats. Even league average on offense, you can get away with with this squad, because these Mariners have the capability to put together an absurdly good defense: Saunders/Guti/Wells, Seager/Ryan/Ackley/Smoak, Zunino behind the plate... that's hands down the best defensive squad in baseball. Jack Z's approach to winning in Safeco was pitching and defense, and it still is, only now he's learned his lesson a bit and doesn't totally ignore the offensive side of things. I mean, they've got Felix, Walker, Paxton, Hultzen, Erasmo, Iwakuma, Vargas, Beavan, Maurer, and that's just the guys who are already on the squad, just totally ignoring any potential FA acquisitions like Jackson or Anibal. And then the Hydra in the bullpen--every time you bring up one ace relief prospect, the system grows another... in front of that defense, in Safeco? You'd just never allow runs. It's OK to score league average, 4.5/game, when you only ever allow 3 on the other side of the ball.


He hasn't won back my heart, yet, but he's on one heckuva hot streak. His two longest home runs since late 2010, loads of walks, no strikeouts, line drives everywhere... it seems like the instant I hit publish on the LL post Smoaky turned a corner. Being a guy who watches via Gameday and can't get the actual broadcasts (grrr MLB blackout policy), is this just fluky or does he actually look amazing out there? He can't earn next year's 1B job by mashing in September now, no way, but he can come to camp on a roll for sure, if this isn't just luck...


the possibility of trading Montero, just the methodology used to decide his ML fate as a hitter and the idea that we trade him for a more or less league average 1st Baseman like Ike Davis or Logan Morrison, both of whom have been written about having attitude problems.


Can't quite get on board us sending decent value for either.
Davis: His '11 year may have been an aberation. It was only 149 PA's, after all. If so, you look to something like his 115 OPS '10 as his bounce back. OK, give him 120. He's another LHB and he may not be an improvement over a healthy Carp. Also, does Smoak's current hot streak make the M's reevaluate him. I think they've written Carp off, btw. WAY too bad.
Would you trade Smoak and MiLB value (say, Miller/Marder/Franklin) for him? You don't send Walker for him, do you? Montero straight up? Heck, you would be better off, and more versatile, with a Montero/Carp 1B platoon. Let's not discount Montero's LHP mashing.
I don't know. You're clearly making a swap, but it is less clear if it is anything but neutral.
Castellanos? Granted, as a 20-yr old he ripped A+: .405-.461.-553 At AA he dropped to .264-.296-.382 and got abused by AA pitchers to the rate of 14 BB's/76 K's. But he is only 20, and held his own.
At 20, in A+ ball, Liddi went .345-.411-.594. At 21 in AA he went .281-.353-.476 with 50 BB's/145 K's.
Romero completely destroyed A+ and AA ball this year. OK, he's 23, but do you penalize his potential because he did 4 years of college?
I'm not seeing that Castellanos is more of a lock than those guys. And we already have a Seager/Ackley roadblock.
I'm thinking that our next big move might be an Ackley swap. Maybe Franklin. Who has more value right now?
Can you get 30 homers in the COF, with a RHB for Ackley? Would you do it?
Seager/Ryan/Franklin/Liddi is an interesting 4 to make 3 IF lineup. You could live with that, couldn't you......if Ackley brought in Justin Upton? Since 'Zona has a nice 2B (Aaron Hill), would you do Seager/Guti/value added pitcher for Upton? Vargas?
Seager and a Big Three for Upton?
Then you would have a Liddi/Franklin/Ryan/Ackley 4=3 deal in the IF. Upton/Guti/Saunders/ Wells or Thames would be a 4=3 OF
BTW, we have devalued Saunders, if we place him in LF. His great value remains in CF. which is why I'm moving Guti.
Does a more healthy Guti become part of your trade plans? Healthy, he has some value to lots of teams. He would be an interesting value-added chit in any trade.
But I'm not sure Davis and Castellanos add any more value than we would give up or already have.

misterjonez's picture

Sounds weird, I know, and he might be more interested in signing a shorter deal with a winning club, but if we picked up Peavy, it would free up Vargas to be included in a trade as well as one of our top pitching prospects..
One thing I've seen all too often in my short career of watching baseball front offices is a tendency to deal from a position of strength; and to always seek to bolster that position more than you would predict.
Not only does signing Oeavy or Greinke make the team better in the short-term, but it frees up Vargas to be included as the established ML player in a deal for young offense.
Greinke figures to be in the driver's seat this winter, him and Hamilton (who looks to be showing his age, to me. His approach this year has all kinds of warning bells going off around his swinging tendencies' at least to me). But Peavy might be had for a 3-4 year deal due to injury history.
You have to spend your money on something. I'd rather have Peavy+Stanton/Upton than Hamolton+Hultzen+Vargas+whatever other pieces of lower value are included.

paracorto's picture

When I heard the first rumors about a slugging 1B arriving to Seattle I hoped it was Davis not Smoak. I can't tell which player to deal for him but for me he's the best Major League young 1B, and quickly becoming better. But I'm afraid that GMZ insane love with Smoak will prevent again Seattle to get him.


I wouldn't even do Seager for Upton straight up, let alone Seager plus Guti or Vargas or one of the three. Check the road hitting numbers--Upton's worse at hitting, at a less valuable position. He had one monster year in a ballpark experiencing the opposite of the 2012 Safeco effect, and he's never really hit outside it. This year he's a worse hitter than Seager, and that's WITH Seager hitting in the Safeco vortex. No. Nonononono. Trade Seager to Arizona and you get to watch him rack up the monster years at third base in the second-hitter-friendliest park in baseball.
If we're dealing one of our middle infielders, better be Franklin. The Mariners don't seem to see him as an SS anymore, but other teams still might, giving him more defensive value than Ackley or Seager. I'm betting on a bounceback from our Ackley; I'm far less confident in the guy who hasn't even mashed AAA yet, but he might have the most value, since scouts have never loved Seager and Ackley's 2012 has been terribad.

GLS's picture

He's listed at 6'3" 235, which may not be on the nose, but when you look at him, it's not like he's a fatbody. He's slim and trim, more or less, and he has enough mobility in his hips and hamstrings to squat behind the plate for 9 innings. Yet, when you see him run, it's like his body doesn't know how. I don't get it at all. He should be able to play somewhere on the field. He ought to be able to play a corner outfield spot, but clearly that isn't the case.

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