State of the De-Bate - GM's want Gloves or SB's in CF?

Q.  Do GM's pick CF's for their gloves or their SB's?

A.  This is a fascinating question, and I'm not sure how to answer it ... or whether it even can be answered.

You could ask the GM's, who would certainly respond, "we look at all of it and take the best player."  ::shrug::

Cool Papa goes,

Second, the fact that most burners play center doesn't mean that teams are "desperate" to put super fast guys there, but rather it's because it's the only place that makes sense. When I'm deciding where to play people on a softball team, the first thing I think about is who plays shortstop. That is the most difficult position because it requires the most variety of skills (quickness, reflexes, coordination, arm strength, accuracy, instincts, etc.). Speed is flat out not enough there. Outfield is a much easier place to play because you dont have to worry about ground balls and rarely have to make tough, quick throws. Add in the fact that lefties aren't even allowed to play the infield and it becomes clear that a huge reason speed pools in the outfield is because speedy players often don't have the skills to play elsewhere, not simply because they are in such hot demand.

As a oftball and baseball coach wannabe myself, I sign off on this, 100%.

IF you insist on a fast offensive player, CF is the natural Yahtzee line slot for him.  Not nearly as easy to put up with a 2B or SS who has speed and nothing else.  Easiest to do that in center.

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However, is that argument the same thing as saying that the following guys are in CF because their GM's don't read Fangraphs and don't know what RC/27 is?   11 of the top 14 "fastest" players in baseball (per HQ's SPD) are center fielders, those being:

  • Peter Bourjos - 173
  • Michael Bourn - 171
  • Austin Jackson - 160
  • Dexter Fowler - 152
  • Cameron Maybin - 152
  • Brett Gardner* - 151
  • Nyjer Morgan - 146
  • Andrew McCutchen - 146
  • Curtis Granderson - 146
  • Julio Borbon - 144
  • Drew Stubbs - 142
  • Other CF's who just missed the cut:  Andres Torres, Jacoby Ellsbury, Rajai Davis*, Angel Pagan*, Denard Span, Coco Crisp.

OK, as I type here ..... I've got no (or not much) preference as to whether this hypothesis is true.  The hypothesis being, "GM's put these guys in center mostly not because the GM's think they'll play (particularly) well in CF, but because they think these guys will score 100 runs."

It's an interesting hypothesis...

..................

My immediate reaction ... not preference! ... is to note that Jack Zduriencik, Tony Reagins, Billy Beane and Jon Daniels do indeed understand the distinction between wOBA and SB.

I don't believe that Tony Reagins, much less Billy Beane, understand wOBA any less well than Cool Papa or I do.  On that basis, I'm skeptical that GM's would want fast guys who don't hit well.

..................

But, forget my skepticism, and investigate.

Let's take a look at the 11 guys above:  supposing that Cool Papa was sliding into second three feet ahead of the throw here.  Suppose that those 11 SPD monster CF's --- > were fast guys who didn't hit well (because the GM's don't have very good understanding of what a good hitter is).

How would we know whether these [fast guys who don't hit that great] were in CF because:

  • (1) GM's think they can score 100 runs? vs.
  • (2) GM's think they can play defense great?

And right away, it occurs to us that we run into a blind alley, if we are trying to investigate intent.

..................

I can't think of any possible way to decide, "Did the Mariners like Ezequiel Carerra in CF for his SB's?  Or for his glove?  Or what?"

Except this:  take the 18-20 fast guys in CF right now, and figure out whether they are batting:

  • Top of the order, 1-2
  • Bottom of the order, 8-9
  • Some place else

If the Coco Crisps are batting 1-2, that's a good indication that the GM's are seeking them out to be table setters (and perhaps being dumb about it).

If the Crisps and Spans and Bourjoses and Borbons are playing CF even though hitting 8-9, that indicates they're being selected for defense.

If they're hitting 5th, like Gutierrez, it's an indication that their SB skills are not a big factor in their selection.

..........................

Maybe somebody else wants to investigate whether all these greyhounds are hitting 1-2 vs. 8-9.

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Q.  Do you have a feel for it?

A.  On this one, I think the burden's on the guy who accuses the GM's of having poor judgment...

I don't see a lot of Endy Chavezes playing LF and RF.  You'd expect more lousy hitters, with SB's, in the corners, playing ahead of good slow hitters, I would think.

If anything, the corners are filled with guys too slow to play there.  (I realize Papa's caveat about "some place to put" your SB guy.)

....................

No disrespect to the great analysts here, but I think it's a bit credulous to imagine that 21st-century GM's overlook such simple facets of sabermetrics, as to choose a 4.0 RC / 40 SB guy over a 5.5 RC / 10 SB guy. 

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