James' 3-man Rotation
Call it the Mad Dog award

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Strickly sabermetrics here.  Let's wander strip mall / food court that surrounds the baseball diamond at Safeco, and stop in for something exotic.  Like an Ichiroll.

In James' latest article - still only $3 per month - he reasons that baseball could have (and probably should have) taken a 1980's turn into an Alternate Universe.  Three SP's rather than five.

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DESCRIPTION

You've got:

  • Three (really good!) starters going 80-90 pitches.  Times 50-54 starts.
  • Limit this super carefully.  You hit your 80-pitch limit with 4.2 IP gone and a 9-0 lead, tough luck Sally.  Shoulda thrown strikes.
  • Pitchers come to love this, because they can win 20 games ... sometimes even 30.
  • It's healthier to bench 250 lbs. every third day, then strrrraaaaain to max out once a week.  SP's stay healthier.
  • Pitching staffs return to 10-11 men, so you have more bench hitters.

We'll spare you the details, but the bottom line is this:  if the Seattle Mariners were to DO this next season, it would give them a huge competitive advantage.  (If you want to debate it in the comments, be our guest; it's your funeral.)

Oh yeah:

  • Lots of SP's would go 16-17, 18-19, 20-17.  W/L records would go back to how they looked in the 1970's.  Cool!
  • GOOD pitchers would go 22-14, 20-13, 21-11, and their baseball cards would look like Warren Spahn's. More cool!
  • GREAT pitchers on a GREAT team might go like 35-10.  You too young to remember Bob Welch winning 27?

A "final advantage" is that an SP will be highly motivated to get through 5 IP in 80 pitches.  This will improve the watchability of the game, as we watch SP's attack hitters rather than burp and fiddle-dee-doo-dah his way through the first inning.  ::coughTaijuancough::

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FIVE SP'S IS A CHIMERA?

James explains that the ONLY reason, absolutely the ONLY reason, that teams switched from 4 SP's to 5 SP's was the belief that it would reduce injuries.  It just didn't do that.  "There was no reason at all to make that switch" but nowadays, you'd have to have the political clout of a Lou Piniella / Pat Gillick MGR and GM team to even attempt it.

Bill sez

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And. . .what about the improvements in sports medicine and training that we hear so much about?   If sports medicine and training have improved so much, and pitchers are being handled so much more carefully than they were back in the bad old days of Tom Seaver and Nolan Ryan, why then have starting pitcher injuries not decreased?  Doesn’t it seem obvious that they should have?

            Pitcher injuries have not decreased because we’re pursuing a chimera, a shibboleth, a mirage.    The way we use starting pitchers now is NOT, in fact, an effective way to keep them healthy and in rotation.    That is what I believe.

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Tom Tango followed on with the idea that --- > you could use a 2-IP reliever to make sure the SP had a better shot at the win.  (Lou Piniella famously said, "I like my starters to get wins and my closers to get saves."

Great idea, and it goes back to the "Ted Power" idea of crossing up the opponent when they don't know who's going to be pitching the first inning. And/or flipping the platoon advantage on them after they set their lineup. You stack the lineup with righties against David Price, boom, the first six batters go down relatively easily to the surprise sidearm RH slider guy. 

20-30 years ago Bill pointed this out in some Abstract ("Is this legit, to flip the platoon on lineups, or is it kind of chickenfeathers?" and IIRC he couldn't come up with a reason not to do it other than "it would even out and it would increase the workload for everybody." IIRC. 

If it were politically feasible I'd use James'/ Tango's idea in a heartbeat.

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GRATUITUOUS STAT

Chris Archer led the majors in games started last year.  34 starts.  Nobody was tied with him.  (34x5 = 170, not 162.)  And he's young!  Told you the Rays were ahead of the curve.

Felix, and Price, and half-a-dozen others, had 34 starts the year before.

Going back through the Almanac to 2010 or so ... yep, 34 starts always leads.  It's packed with guys like Kershaw, Greinke, Cueto, Felix, Price.  And it seems like Greg Maddux used to get 35-37 starts?  Yep, here's his card.  Shame he only lasted 5,008 innings doing that.  He had 21 seasons' worth of 35-start "grinds" in him.

Let's check Earl ... yeah, took over the Orioles in 1969, started McNally 40 times and Cuellar 39.  That team won 109 games.   Next year, those two and a rookie Jim Palmer all started 39-40 and they won 108.   Good way to entrench yourself in MLB's managerial circles, winning 200 out of 300 as your way of saying hello.  All those pitchers wound up throwing 3000-4000 innings, too.

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GRATUITOUS MARINERS APPLICATION

Other than the fact that Nate Karns has a very Mad-Dog sweet motion?  And that you might put a thumb on the scale towards Iwakuma's durability, given his grace and balance?

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The Mariners, last year, skipped their #5 starter a couple of times on off days.  Good or bad?

Until they change the rules on relievers ... the more often your team skips a young starter, the happier you should be.  Earl put it, back in his day, "The fifth starter takes games away from four pitchers who are better than him."  Wouldn't matter if it were James Paxton, even; Felix Hernandez is better than him.  But especially if it's Roenis Elias or Mike Montgomery.  Root for Felix to get 34, 35, maybe 36 starts.  THEN we will know that Scott Servais is The Man :- )

The only caveat:  Felix, Iwakuma, and their ilk have to go with a strict 99-pitch limit in the starts before and after.  But that's why we say "until they change the rules on relievers."  Until the game wakes up, the individual teams are better off just to use more and more relievers.

Anybody got a Jerry DiPoto quote on this?  Did the Angels skip #5 starters?

Cheers,

Dr D

Comments

1

Of course the key here is whether 85 pitches results in you recovering 1 day earlier than 105 pitches (or 79 and 99).  Personally, I'm not buying it. Include the pre-game warm up and the pre-inning tosses (6 innings, say) and now you've added another 90 throws (some not near full speed, but done while you're not loose).

So does 169 throws = 3 days rest (by some law of muscular recovery) and 189 = 4, by the same law?

Nah.

the 100 pitch deal is artificial because it gives the appearance of saving your investment.  

Palmer (who was a rookie in '65, Doc), between '70 and '78, only once threw less than 274 innings.  That was in '74 when he threw 178 (in 26 starts, about 7 per).  I can't even believe they paid him for that light load!!  :)  He threw 1253 ininings in 4 years, starting at age 29.

Oh, he was throwing 227, while leading the league in WHIP, at age 36.

McNally was out of the game at age 33.  Burned out arm from all those Earl innings?  Don't know.

But Cuellar had 7 years running where he was never below 248, once he came to Balt.  He was a 38-year old throwing 256 in the last of those years.

It is less the innings and more the commitment.  Kershaw is the modern equivalent.  He's thrown 230-ish innings for 4 of the last 5 years.  In '14 he dogged it to 198.  Could he have added 5 more starts during the year and not seen his arm become a noodly appendage?  Why not.

Palmer did it and he threw hard, too.  BTW, those Earl guys were commonly facing 1100-1200 guys a year.  Kershaw sees about 900.  But then he's pretty efficient, too.

Anyway, Doc, I think it is less the pitches and more the fear that you'll be accused to blowing up a guy.  

With pitchers, we ought to be talking to the Cuellars and McNallys and Palmers and Seavers AND seeing what they did between starts (and off-season) to be ready/fresh.

Sometimes the most modern approach might be the most old school.  What goes around comes around.

Moe 

2

I think you've got a BJOL subscription, right?  You could easily be correct that the workload is prohibitive.  James has considered that (for 30 years) and calculates the innings load at 240-250 per year or so.  But these would be 240-250 *less* stressful innings because you're not pressing to throw pitch #100, #105.

:: shrug :: it would need testing, which it ain't going to get.

3

Without a doubt that's the reason it's not going to be tested.  The first time somebody hits the DL in that system, the world screams bloody murder.  It's not like they would take a breath and compare the DL ratio against the 5-man rotation...

4

James once wrote, "I've read everything Weaver ever said.  Nothing in there explains how he kept his pitchers healthy."

Actually he did say what it was.  It was that he didn't want his SP's laboring.  The moment their MOTIONS changed even a tick, they were out of there.

But that's first principles to managers in the year 2015.  How many times have we seen a pitcher's velocity drop by 3 MPH for TWO PITCHES and the manager sprints out of the dugout to yank him?  Literally, two pitches.  Boom.

5

If decreasing the load by going from every fourth day to every fifth does not reduce injuries...it doesn't necessarily hold that moving from every fourth day to every third will not increase injuries (even at a reduced pitch count.)

But I do have to admit, for pure entertainment purposes, seeing what happens when Servais goes out to pull Felix after 4 and a half shuout innings...or the same conversation between Kershaw and whichever rookie manager winds up in LA...would definitely qualify as must-see TV.  

7

Especially when Jose Fernandez throws a fit in front of the cameras.  Who was the pitcher who did that this last year?

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