doc, this absolutely reeks of homerism. i see your line at the end claiming not to care enough to be biased, lol. lets go through this piece by piece, because i dont want to put words in your mouth.
You can watch Russell Wilson drop back and read the field, and you can apply a standard consisting of "Joe Montana."
please explain how wilson reads the field like joe montana. is it because he moves from his primary to secondary receivers quickly? just because a qb can move off of his primary receiver quickly and look for the dumpoff, doesnt mean he "reads" the field like joe montana. reading the field is much more complicated than that. its more about decoding what the defense is going to do pre-snap, processing disguised blitzes, NOT giving up on the primary receiver too quickly and looking for the check down, etc. you are saying he operates at an elite level in those aspects of the position? if so, how much game film do you watch? because the television coverage only shows the person with the ball, and doesnt show much in the way of down field route combinations, back end secondary play, etc. so to assess his ability to read a defense the way you do, you better be able to back that up. when you invoke brady, montana, rodgers, you better be sure you know what youre talking about.
Applying an Aaron Rodgers / Drew Brees standard to Robert Griffin III's downfield vision last night, to his alertness and to his quickness of decision, I thought he measured up fairly well to ... Ken O'Brien.....Griffin threw for, count them, 100 yards, and the media was drooling all over him. I was drooling all over the prospect of sic'ing the Seahawk defense on him.
again, id love to know how youre assessing his downfield vision when you and i cannot see what is happening downfield. you watched 1 game where griffin was literally playing with a limp, couldnt accelerate anywhere near his peak, probably struggled to push off on throws, and you declare his field vision is equal to ken obrien??? he threw for 100 yards on 9 of 18 passing. the game plan was all run, all night. and some of that field awareness that you claim he lacks was on display on the zone read plays. dude is an nfl savant for his age. remember, he came out of college a year early, and he came from a spread college offense. and he has started day 1. keep in mind wilson is 24 years old, griffin is almost 23. all of the nfl guys, the gms and coaches, raved about his football iq coming out of college, the way he could draw up plays for every position on the field. EVERYONE who met with him said "this isnt your typical athletic mobile qb". maybe we should just do a statistical comparison between the two to see how they stack up...
per advanced nfl stats...
Year Team G WPA EPA WPA/G EPA/P SR(%) Att Cmp Cmp% PassYds Sk SkYds Int %Deep AYPA
2012 WAS 15 3.10 138.4 0.21 0.24 50.9 394 259 65.7 3211 32 230 5 18.3 6.5
Year Team G WPA EPA WPA/G EPA/P SR(%) Att Cmp Cmp% PassYds Sk SkYds Int %Deep AYPA
2012 SEA 16 3.03 109.8 0.19 0.20 50.7 393 252 64.1 3118 33 203 10 23.2 5.8
epa is expected points added, griffin ranked 7th in nfl, wilson 10th.
wpa is win prob added, griffin 10th, wilson 11th.
aypa is adjusted yards per attempt accounting for sacks and interceptions, griffin 3rd, wilson 9th.
by the way, these stats arent cherry picking or misleading, as brady, manning, ryan, rodgers are all in the top 5 of the 3 stats i used.
also, i didnt mention rushing yards, where griffin leads by over 300 yards and the ypc are 6.8 for griffin, 5.2 for wilson.
He's had a very good year. So did Michael Vick have an excellent first full season, and then he never reproduced it. Not this side of the pokey, anyway.
vicks excellent first full season you speak of, he had a comp % of 55%, an av yards per attempt of just under 7, and a qb rating of 81.6. he ranked 25th, 12th, and 18th respectively in those categories that year. to pile on, you know who had comp %'s of around 55 this year? brady quinn, jake locker, mark sanchez, josh freeman. all of them are in the bottom 6 of the league...
his two best statistical seasons were the two full seasons EXACTLY this side of the pokey. comp %'s around 60, qb ratings of 100 and 85, and ypa a full yard higher in both seasons.
We predicted injury earlier this season, and that didn't take long, now did it? If he's hurt as a rookie, where's he going to be in year four?
you and every other analyst out there. weve all been saying he is an injury risk with his build and his unwillingness to protect himself. if hes hurt as a rookie, i would venture a guess that its going to make him smarter about giving up his body going forward. players at that position have a tendency to learn how to slide as they get older, after growing tired of getting suplexed on a weekly basis.
But it's my impression at this point: Robert Griffin III couldn't carry Russell Wilson's jockstrap. Wilson is an actual future HOF quarterback.
lol.
if this isnt exhibit A of a homer argument, someone please show me where i can find one. the stats dont agree with your assessment, the scouts and nfl gms dont agree with your assessment. i would say living in/near seattle and running a site called seattle sports insider might be the deciding factors in your reasoning.

thats why i copy pasted your exact words and then responded directly to the claims you were making. if i missed a deeper point you were trying to get to, maybe you shouldve just made that point...so i guess since you are going to ignore all of the statistics (which all point to griffin having had a slightly better year), and you didnt respond to the other valid questions i raised about your analysis, only zeroing in on "pre snap reads", ill try to reiterate my position.
There was an RGIII when the defense had to account for the QB run FIRST, and now there is an RGIII when it barely has to worry about the QB run at all.
if you took the time to look at the stats i posted, you will notice that both qbs have the same amount of pass attempts, and griffin having about 25 more rushing attempts, which averages out to about 1.5 more rushes per game. both qbs are dangerous running threats, and both qbs are gameplanned in roughly the same way. its like youre arguing that griffin is only a dangerous qb because of his running ability, but ignoring that wilson does a lot of damage in exactly the same way. and again, you are basing your total assessment of his qbing ability on 1 game in which he was CLEARLY injured, in an outdoor cold weather game, in which he attempted 18 total passes. if this were wilson having this game, im guessing you mightve said something like "was never given a chance to get in a rhythm, still perfomed with guts, didnt shy away from contact, heart of a lion, didnt make crucial mistakes with the ball, etc....." again, if you take into account his entire body of work, and compare it to wilsons, id say griffin has had a better season. and again, remember hes younger, and hes coming from a system in college that usually takes qbs longer to adjust from.
That 'pre-snap read' explanation sounds like you've seen 1,000 snaps explained on blogs and never played any actual football. Anybody from Ken O'Brien to a good HIGH SCHOOL quarterback can read the defense "pre-snap," or in the video room as long as we're talking about "reads" while you're standing there chewing bubble gum. *I* can read a defense "pre snap."
you are picking out one thing about making reads and field vision that i mentioned and beating it to death. you ignored the other things i said about being able to dissect a defense. and no, not every single qb can make all of the pre snap reads that the elite guys can. sure, identifying the mike and setting the protection is pretty basic for an nfl qb, but its a little more nuanced than that. anyways, i dont want to just focus on pre snap reads, as there are more interesting things to talk about.
It's what happens in the 1.0 to 2.0 seconds after a QB plants his back foot that separates Michael Vick from Joe Montana -- what happens after his pre-snap and first reads are blown. Both Vick and Montana get yardage when the first read works out peachy keen. What happens when the first read is no help? THAT is what I am talking about here.
total agreement on my part, im not arguing that being able to make pre snap reads is the deciding factor in field vision. i said being able to figure out disguised/delayed blitzes, which happens after the ball is snapped by the way, reading secondary coverage, coming off his primary target are all components of field vision. you really think that if griffin wasnt operating at a high level in those areas, he would be able to put up the kind of stats he has in his rookie season??? seriously, comparing the guy to michael vick is just awful, especially vicks first full season. theyre not even in the same stadium.
And if you'll actually pay attention to any of the pro QB coaches, from Madden to Gruden, you'll notice that they freeze the play at the foot plant and then start talking.
its funny you bring up madden and gruden, because if you asked them BEFORE the draft, they said griffin was a super intelligent football processor, who wasnt great because he happened to be able to run a 4.37. his passing game was great on its own, and him being the most athletic qb since vick, maybe ever, only adds more weapons to his game. seriously, he was beating teams down the field, on the perimeter, over the middle, anywhere and everywhere. if you think im being hyperbolous? check out the gruden qb camp video with griffin before the draft last year. its 24 minutes long.
I like Griffin III, a lot, and hope he has a great future. Sorry that your man RGIII has one guy who doesn't worship him there hoss.
it might not seem like it, but im actually a dallas cowboys fan. i was disheartened when the redskins drafted him, am i doubly so now. but i can appreciate when a player on a rival team is a great player, and griffin is clearly that. what i like about him most is that hes a great player without coming off as arrogant, like the cam newton type of player. im most impressed with his humility, his being a well-spoken, team first guy.
and i was going to post under my name, longtimereader, but i couldnt remember my password and login and all that stuff, so i just shortened it to lr. so i have been a reader of this site for a few years now.
lastly, if you dont care about whether wilson is a hof qb, and you dont really pay attention to football a whole lot, then you should probably expect criticism to come when you post pieces like the one you did. dont hide behind your lack of real interest in football after taking it upon yourself to air your opinions about your hometown team out there for all to see. if you dont care about talking about football, then just dont write about football.

i think your seahawks colored glasses are distorting your views. saying griffin is an athlete who takes the center snap is laughable. he is a player in his FIRST nfl season, everyone seems to forget, who immediately has taken a team with a starting rb who was a sixth round rookie, starting wrs of pierre garcon and a past his prime santana moss, not much of a threat at tight end, and he has produced 20tds against 5 int and a 66% comp. i posted michael vicks second year stats above, as he seems to be an apt comparison. griffin has produced better stats across the board in passing categories.
im not sitting here saying he is a better pocket passer than brady and manning, but cmon guys, put down the kool aid. if you want to compare griffin to brees in his first year, brees sat his first year, then his second year he posted very pedestrian numbers. 60% comp, 17tds against 16 ints, 6.3 ypa, a 77 qb rating. it took brees until his 4th nfl season to start putting up good numbers. griffin is a better pure qb than brees was at the same stage of his career, and its not really close at all.
why does everyone here feel this need to disparage griffin while at the same time propping up their guy? "well our guy runs too, but not because he has too. he ran pro offenses his whole life." i say again, it makes what griffin is doing in his rookie year even more impressive, the fact that he came out a year early, ran a spread offense in college, and still has had immediate success taking over a team that was bad just a year ago.
is russell wilson having a good season? yes of course he is. its a great season when compared to an average rookie qb, and especially considering his draft position and limitations. but that doesnt mean we should all go out and tear down the other rookie qb who is a great athlete and has posted extremely similar, though slightly better numbers. lets be reasonable about this.

RGIIII played in a spread, never threw to a spot, and it was always up to him to determine how to attack. His college coach just made sure the offense provided him with options and was nearly impossible to provide enough defenders to take away every option when at least one guy had to be dedicated to watching the QB.
As Collinsworth said: "RGIII didn’t have a playbook in college. He didn’t know a route tree. Mike and Kyle didn’t care. They said we’re going to teach him and let him audible from Day 1."
RG III can demo anything for you on a whiteboard once you show it to him. He's a literal genius. He was accepted to Stanford (where IIRC he would have been classmates with Luck getting an architecture degree) and graduated with his poly sci degree in 3 years. He was gonna go to grad school at Baylor if he'd decided to stay in (hadn't won the Heisman or whatever).
I agree with you, Griffin doesn't read pass defenses as well as Wilson does right now, but you couldn't tell by their stats. Wilson and RGIII are basically equals in the passing game, although they do it in slightly different ways, and Russell spends his time running around like a water ninja and looking to throw, while Griffin spends more time running downfield, a gazelle among lions.
But Griffin's gonna catch up FAST, and it's not like Pete hasn't been spoon-feeding the offensive responsibilities to Russell this year. I expect the Seahawks to win this week - the Redskins don't have the kind of defense he's already dismantled in SF and others, and they're injured besides. I would compare Robert more to a running version of Joe Flacco, though. Great downfield arm, not asked to go past his 2nd read too often, and a great running game. That could morph into Steve Young shortly, as Steve was always too busy running for his life early in his career to be great. RGIII's evolution under the great teacher (of Young, as well as others) in Shanahan will be great fun to see.
Russell Wilson gets a Drew Brees comp from me, but he always has. He just needs time. A few years from now, Wilson and RGIII should be the next generation of MVP candidates after Manning and Brady are gone.
Just don't think Griffin is O'Brien, unless that's your assessment only for this game with a one-legged Robert (and by your assessment that Robert can't carry Russell's jock, it sounds like you're calling it a done deal that this Griffin is all he'll ever have to offer). Griffin's barely getting started. You'd have written off Steve Young with that incorrect kind of first-year assessment and called him a bunch of undeserved hype too.
Young vs. Brees in 3-4 years. Mark me.
~G

The game was too fast. About halfway through his second year he started getting the hang of it. As a Broncos fan we saw him a coupla times a year and I knew I really liked the kid (I was a fan in college much as I was with Wilson and did NOT want him on the Chargers) but he wasn't ready. Part of it was the OL. They didn't understand how to play with a short QB behind them even though Flutie wound up on those early teams too.
Brees made a few poor decisions and he wasn't used to under-center snaps. He was almost exclusively a shotgun QB in college, and that doesn't fly when you play Marty-ball. It took him a bit to adjust.
~G

He also will likely look a little worse because Pete Carroll knows exactly what an option attack and running QB looks like, having been coaching against Oregon recently enough to be familiar with the concept without having to play it out at the pro level.
I think it'd be different with a healthy RGIII, because Wilson is asked to stay back and pass, with his ninja footie boots on in the pocket to easily evade pass rushers, while Robert's contribution is to get down the field more with his feet as well as his arm.
Wilson just has no pulse. I adore him. I was utterly pissed when my Broncos drafted Osweiler in the 2nd instead of Wilson later, but it's kinda great since I get to see him now instead of letting him take over for Manning in a few years once he retires after a couple more Super Bowl rings - including one this year. :)
But we'll get a chance to see both kids this weekend, and start the education of both QBs in the postseason.
~G

when you yourself say things like, "he couldnt carry wilsons jock", or, "he is comparable to ken obrien who couldnt read an nfl defense to save his coaches life", those are disparaging remarks. and all im trying to do is argue my position that he is not what you are saying. i have taken the time to go through and research the stats of people you guys bring up, like vick and brees. and im trying to compare what griffin has done this year to wilson, vick, brees.
i understand the mantra around this site. that its supposed to be a friendly discussion, so i apologize if im coming across gruff. but i 100% disagree with the way you are characterizing griffin, and im just flatly pointing out that no one who is rushing to wilsons defense is doing so using any kind of statistical analysis. the stats all say one thing, that griffin has had a slightly better year passing the football. its close enough as to be nearly a tie, but not exactly. thats been the basis of my argument all along. but no one wants to talk about that. im just frustrated because im trying to add something to the conversation. im trying to point out that your original post was in my opinion a homer argument. i have pretty openly spelled out my case, and all you pick up is the sneer, and then you say the conversation is going over my head, that im not following what you guys are talking about. but i am following what you are arguing. and i am disagreeing with it. in my last post i quoting you as saying.....
It's what happens in the 1.0 to 2.0 seconds after a QB plants his back foot that separates Michael Vick from Joe Montana -- what happens after his pre-snap and first reads are blown. Both Vick and Montana get yardage when the first read works out peachy keen. What happens when the first read is no help? THAT is what I am talking about here.
and then i responded to it. i get your argument. i really do. i just happen to think its wrong.

i mixed a few responses together and lumped them all into one response.

if griffin isnt nearly the quarterback that wilson is, how does that manifest itself in terms of on field production and team success? if griffin is no where near as good of an nfl qb as russell wilson at this exact moment in time, then why do their passing stats align almost perfectly? is it because griffin has a much better supporting cast? much better coaches? what is the reason they produce at almost the same exact level?
there is a reason why lesser skilled qbs produce worse on field performance. the two are married. ryan fitzpatrick, joe flacco, jay cutler etc. their stats are worse, year after year, than the highly skilled qbs who everyone agrees are really good field readers, guys that can dissect a defense, guys that are accurate and smart with the football. is this just random? do qbs who arent highly skilled and cant read defenses and cannot stick their plant foot in the ground and go through progressions appear in the top 5-7 qbs? do they amass stats like griffin did this year? you just dont complete 66% of passes and throw only 5 int and yet have an over 8 yards per attempt (which by the way led the nfl) by running a smoke and mirrors offense in the nfl. it just doesnt work.
we should be asking ourselves, if i compare two qbs, a and b, and i compare all of their important statistics, and they seem to match up almost identically, then why does one get an a+ and the other one get a b-?

thank you for providing some background as to how intelligent he actually is. people see him run around and create plays in the pocket, and they are tempted to just compare him to michael vick. he is not michael vick. he is a better qb than michael vick has ever been in his entire career right now. and he will improve.
i still think his ability to hang in the pocket and go through his progressions is being understated. we see the flashy 70 yard runs, we see him scramble to avoid sacks and pick up first downs, and our first instinct is to just assume he didnt like his first read and just tucked and ran, like michael vick used to do. what we miss when we see those highlights on sportscenter are all of the other plays where he sits in the pocket, makes reads, hits check downs, scrambles to throw, not just to run. and so now he is labeled as just another scrambling qb, one who might someday figure it out, but for now needs to be coddled.
i remember plenty of times watching seahawks games where wilson looks to scramble early in the play, where he looks to break the pocket instead of finding his 3rd receiver. and thats ok when you have his type of athleticism. especially being a rookie qb. but lets not sit here and say he has joe montana or tom brady level field recognition but griffin is just another michael vick. its just not accurate.

it will be fun to watch how these two qbs grow from here, and ultimately who becomes a better qb. thats pretty much the reason we argue about sports isnt it? one cool thing is we get to watch the two qbs play against each in the same game this weekend. though i will say it does kinda suck that one of them isnt full strength, and i hope that doesnt distort peoples views of him for this one game. plus he has to play against the seahawks defense...

Yeah, I've developed a bad habit of not using proper capitalization. Kind of a lazy habit. But i don't take any offense to your request.
Lets compare Newton's rookie passing stats against Griffins.
Newton 60% comp 7.8 ypa 21 td against 17 ints a 55 qbr (total quarterback rating, a newer stat that incorporates more technical aspects of the position and is on a 1-100 scale)
Griffin 65% comp 8.1 ypa 20 tds against 5 ints a 71 qbr
Newton broke the top 10 in two of those categories last year, as he was 6th in the nfl in interceptions, despite being 13 in pass attempts, and he was 10th in ypa. He was 18th in comp %, and he finished 15th in qb rating.
Heres where Griffin ranked this year. 4th in comp %, 1st in ypa, 1st in int among qualified qbs, and 3rd in qb rating. (Griffin also beat him in rushing yards and ypc, 6.8 to 5.4)
Are these all of the stats out there, or even the best possible stats to use? No. Are these stats useful in comparing two or more players against each other? Absolutely.
Find me a quarterback in the modern age of the NFL who posted stats near the level of those Griffin has put up in their rookie year and then washed out. In years 4 and 5 was struggling to hold a starting qb job, and not because of injuries. Cam Newton doesn't count. Michael Vick doesn't count. Griffin stats are just on a completely different level than the types of qb's everyone seems to want to compare him to. I'm serious, if anyone out there can find an apt comparison, I'd love to know it. I just cannot recall someone who has had this level of success in the NFL this quickly in the NFL. You might say Russell Wilson, and rightly so. They have posted very similar stats. But I'm more interested in finding someone who's career has already played out, to see if we can learn something.
In regards to your comment about taking Wilson over Griffin everytime, i think there are 32 NFL GM's that would have disagreed with that assessment at least before the draft. Now that everyone has had a chance to see both qb's, sure there might be some who would take Wilson over Griffin, but I'd bet you a dollar that the majority of GM's would redraft Griffin over Russell if there were a draft taken tomorrow. There's really no way to know, but judging by his their respective draft positions, and their close level of performance this season, and with Griffin's intelligence inflating his upside, I think my bet would be a pretty safe one.
Has Shanahan and his system been a big reason why their offense has been so successful? Absolutely. I'm not saying Griffin is great all on his own. But let me ask you this, would Tim Tebow have reproduced his results? How about Christian Ponder? Jake Locker? Tarvaris Jackson? Are you arguing that any QB with good scrambling skills and a decent arm in the right system would post 100 qb ratings, and in their rookie year?
Here's the bottom line: Robert Griffin has posted a HISTORICALLY great rookie season at the qb season. He has started from day 1. He inherited a team and supporting offensive cast that does not include any future Hall of Famers, or even any multiple Pro Bowlers, Santana Moss made 1 pro bowl in 2005...Pierre Garcon in 5 seasons doesn't have a single 1,000 yard season. His starting tight end is I could go on and on. And he has done ALL of this apparently without yet knowing how to read a defense, without being able to come off his primary receiver, and without having accuracy and timing on throws across the middle. Everyone agrees the guy is highly intelligent. And extremely physically gifted. And yet we keep coming to the conclusion that he's going to get figured out. That the NFL is going to catch on to him, and when that day comes its going to spell game over for his career. WHY?
Bottom line 2, lol: He's not anywhere near a finished product. He left school a year early after playing in a backyard football type system, and yet from day 1 has held his own (which is a huge understatement). And we're writing the guy off and saying that he better evolve quickly or his time will be up shortly? Well if anyone CAN evolve and learn how to be a better QB, my money is on Griffin.

I really enjoyed reading a scouts take on him. But those stark assessments lead me to 1 question. Is he being coached to play this way? Is Shanahan telling him, hey when you come out of the play action, we need 2 seconds to let the X clear out the safety down the field to open up the deep crossing route coming from the other side of the field? If its not there, look for the back in the flats and if thats not there escape the pocket and create something. Is it possible the reason he locks onto the primary target too long is a result of playcalling style?
At this point I'm just literally puzzled. If the guy struggles to move off his primary target because he doesn't possess that particular skill, if he isn't accurate with the ball on timing based routes, then how the heck does he end up with a 66% comp and lead the league in ypa? I seriously just don't get it. When we see Mark Sanchez throw a ball too low on a slant across the middle, or we see Michael Vick airmail Jeremy Maclin on a 15 yard out pattern, they pay a price for those mistakes on their stat sheet. They complete less passes, and when they do complete them, their inaccuracy limits yards after catch opportunities. We can see quite directly the effect of these skill deficiencies in comp % and ypa, among other indicators. But with Griffin, we see a sparkling comp % and league leading ypa. How can this be? If he were just throwing dumpoffs all game long, he might have a high comp %, but a miserable ypa. And vice versa, if he were going deep all the time, his comp % would suffer. So what gives?
And if someone responds with, "well its because Shanahan's offense puts him in easy spots where he doesn't have to make accurate throws", or, "he doesn't have to read anything", then why doesn't every team just copy/paste Shanahan's offense? If all you need is a running threat at QB with ok/manageable accuracy, then Vick, Tebow, Locker, Tavaris Jackson, Joe Webb, Vince Young would all be in demand top 15 NFL QBs.
Maybe I'm missing something obvious, I probably am, but if someone could help me understand this seemingly annoying paradox, I'd be very grateful.

With Shanahan:
Brian Griese - 62.2% comp rate, 1.34 TD/INT rate, 84.1 rating
Jake Plummer - 59.1% comp rate, 1.51 TD/INT rate, 84.3 rating
Jay Cuter - 62.5% comp rate, 1.46 TD/INT rate, 87.1 rating
Without Shanahan:
Brian Griese - 63.4% comp rate, 1.04 TD/INT rate, 79.5 rating
Jake Plummer - 55.9% comp rate, 0.79 TD/INT rate, 69.0 rating
Jay Cuter - 59.6% comp rate, 1.30 TD/INT rate, 81.9 rating
Should I mention that Elway had 3 of his 4 highest QB ratings at the end of of his career when Shanny showed back up to coach him to some SB victories?
What Shanahan has ALWAYS done is provide a top-5 rushing attack to take the pressure off his QB. The play-action game has always worked to provide open receivers because the ZBS running scheme he runs is perfect for getting a bite from safeties and LBs who should be doing other things but are tired of getting gashed.
The reason other teams don't do as much of it is that it can suffer against 3-4 teams because of the smaller linemen his scheme requires, and because there aren't a ton of great ZBS blockers out there to choose from (or teachers of its intricacies, which Shanny and Dennison learned from the master, Alex Gibbs) . It's like asking why every team doesn't run the 3-4 that the Steelers employ since that D works so well. They don't do it because not everybody has a 50-year NFL participant/genius to design and implement said scheme, or the personnel for it, and because it requires commitment and teaching of that particular scheme to every new addition.
What's fun about adding Griffin to the mix is that the QB option can help dismantle a 3-4 better than a straight-forward ZBS-primary scheme can. You saw what they did to the Cowboys' penetration all day - cut it off at the knees with RB/QB action, without even worrying about blocking some players at all.
I love what Shanahan's doing. He requires a mobile QB. He likes bootlegs and play action and naked boots and rollouts and moving pockets. His QB cannot be a statue. If you give him a mobile QB he can make him into a useful and productive QB (see Plummer) even if that QB refuses to study tape or take his job seriously unless it's Sunday.
RGIII, on the other hand, is a SERIOUS student. Shanahan has always said that it takes 3 years in his system for a QB to really get it and utilize it to the max. Robert isn't doing half the things that he will in a couple of years with Shanahan.
Griffin has great mechanics, throws a tremendous deep ball, and has a strong and accurate arm to hit open targets with. He doesn't try to take more than the D is offering and is perfectly willing (and coached) to run if the openings are not there after his first couple of reads. Is Shanahan helping him? Sure. He's not asking him to do too much in the pocket and he's not having him stand in there looking for his 4th option while a 300 lb DT bears down on him.
Shanahan hates mistakes, and Griffin doesn't make them. Shanahan wants dedicated QBs, and Griffin certainly is that. It's a wonderful marriage. For my money, the Shanahan version of the West Coast is the best. The ability to destroy your opponent on the ground is crucial, as that works in all weather. And it's just a pleasure to see at work.
The wrinkles RGIII is adding make it even more fun. When he fully grasps the WCO and understands his progressions, and Shanahan finishes getting him the proper weapons it's gonna be a truly impressive show.
~G

I have been a follower of this site, so i do recognize the names of some people posting in this thread. So I am aware that Gmoney has highly regarded opinions. But thanks for trying to to balance the sides a little bit.
I can accept if some around here think that Wilson is the superior QB. There is an argument to be made for him. I just don't think its as compelling as you do. The argument basically goes like this: Wilson currently has to do more traditional qbing resposibilities, and he currently reads defenses better. He is more likely to survive. Therefore he is the better bet to be the better QB 8 years from now. I just think that viewpoint if too short sighted. I will concede that Griffin's offense is more tailored to his athletic ability than Wilson's offense. But please lets not forget that Griffin has had an unbelievable year throwing the football. When the word historic gets thrown around I don't think people really understand what it means. It means that in the HISTORY of the NFL, there have been few rookie seasons, if any, as prolific as his rookie season. Just take a few seconds and reread that statement. And he has done so while according to everyone here not being able to read defenses, whithout being able to throw accurately on timing routes, basically with having below average QBing skills.
He is in other words a product of his system. If you'll just look back through Shanahan's other QB's, Jay Cutler, Jake Plummer, Brian Griese, you'll see they had the same exact level of success that Griffin has had.......except they haven't. Let's go down the list.
Brian Griese. Sat his rookie year, in his second year he had a very average year, 14/14 td/int, 58% comp, 75 rating. His 3rd year was a great year, 102 rating, 64% comp, 19/4 td/int. His next year he regressed and posted a 78 rating, 61% comp, 23/19. His last year in Denver, and under Shanahan was a little better, 85 rating, 15/15, 66% comp.
He played 5 games in Miami, not very well, then showed up with Tampa Bay the year after that. His first year in Tampa Bay he posted a 98 rating, a 69% comp, and 20/12. The next year he posted on 80 rating, with a 7/7, and 64% comp in an injury shortened year. He then spent the next 2 years in QB hell, aka Chicago, and posted a 77 rating with 61% comp and 10/12 in the second year, the year he actually started. He had one final bad year in Tampa Bay the next year.
I think we can safely infer that under his 5 years with Shanahan, he had 1 great year, 1 decent year, and 2 below average years. In Tampa Bay he had 1 great year, and 1 ok year. In chicago he had one decent/below average year. So from this we conclude that Shanahan was the key to his being a successful QB?
Jake Plummer. Played 6 decent/below average seasons in Arizona. Then came to Denver and posted 2 good seasons, 91 ratings, 61%, and over 2/1 td/int ratios. 1 decent season, and then 1 bad season, his last in the NFL. I think we can safely say Shanahan had a clear impact on Jake Plummer's career.
Jay Cutler. Sat most of his rookie season, and played 5 games at the end of the season. Played well with 88 rating, 9/5. His next 2 years, almost identical, 63% comp, a 45/32 ratio, rating of 87. Then after being traded to Chicago, he had a down year his first year, then posted 2 years almost identical to the ones he posted in Denver. 59% comp. 36/23, and 86 rating. And keep in mind he was throwing to better receivers in Denver than he had in Chicago until they got Marshall this year. I live in Illinois, i follow the Bears pretty closely.
So when we go back and look through the guys we are comparing to Griffin, we can see that under Shanahan neither Griese nor Cutler approached anywhere near the rookie stats that Griffin has accomplished. In fact we see that in those 2, their careers weren't clearly significantly enhanced by Shanahan's offense. Cutler has produced multiple seasons that are all very similar with or without Shanahan. Griese had 1 great year under Shanahan, but he also had 1 great year in Tampa years later, and various decent/good seasons scattered throughout his career in different cities. Plummer is the outlier, the one we can clearly see had his career impacted by Shanahan. But as we have seen, this just doesn't happen with every QB that Shanahan has.
I would say that Shanahan has had a much bigger influence on the running backs he has had than the QB's he has had. He took guys that nobody ever heard of and put them in his system and they all produced very well. But when we look at the QB situation, it just isn't as cut and dried. Sure, he has coached some good seasons, and he has had QB's put up good numbers. But those QB's have also had good seasons under other head coached and in other cities.
I'm not saying that Shanahan has had NO impact on his QB's, just that it has been in my opinion overstated how big his impact has been. And i think the numbers back that up. With the exception of Jake Plummer.
As far as the argument that he is a much bigger injury risk, I agree. If he continues to play this way, his career will include many broken bones and sprained ligaments. He will miss a lot of games. But that's assuming that he will always play this way. How many rookie QB's with his athleticism have come into the NFL and turned into pocket passer's their first year? Let me ask you, if you're livelihood depended on you staying healthy and adapting, and learning when and how to slide, do you think you could learn it? Do you think someone like Griffin could also learn those things? Do you think it's likely he learns those things?
And just for fun, Elway leaped a plateau, as Doc likes to say, the 2 years before Shanahan showed up. He went from being a career 54-56% comp, having a career 162/147 td/int ratio, and a mid 70's rating, to a 63% comp, 42/20, and 89 rating in 1993 and 1994. Then Shanahan showed up and Elway posted identical numbers (actually very slightly worse) his last 4 years, and now Shanahan gets all the credit. If you go back and look closer however, you will see that John Elway became John Elway 2 years before Shanahan got there.