You might send Zunino to the minors for 20 games to gain an extra year of service time, but dodging the Super 2 is harder for true talents now - as it should be, to be fair to them.
Having to hold off their promotion til the end of July instead of the early-middle of June is a big deal. It basically makes dodging the Super Two into an August promotion, more like a September cup-o-coffee after the race is over instead of a mid-season add that can take you to the playoffs (a la Posey a few years ago).
If a guy is ready to go at the end of April, call him up. Might as well get the extra 3 months of performance out of your studs.
Personally, I expect Zunino to make the roster out of ST, and betting on a really early extension to keep him around at a semi-reasonable price instead of an extra year of service time or skipping Super Two status.
Times are a-changin'.
And because of Zunino's ridiculously advanced timeline and Posey/Bench comps, we need to figure out our Montero plans very shortly.
~G
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Don't freak out, LrKrBoi29 my friend. We're not saying that Mike Zunino, or any player in the next (say) thousand years, is going to outplay #5. We are saying that when we got our first look at Zunino, from the CF camera, that Zunino reminded us of Bench, more than he reminded us of any player.
By "remind" I mean that Zunino "caused me to think of someone or somebody else." The somebody else that Zunino caused me to think of was John Bench. (Sparky Anderson called him that.)
Here's why Zunino's defense caused me to think of Johnny Bench ...
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Scouting Report. John Mayo's full scouting report, bottom-of-the-monitor version: "Outstanding bat speed and loft. Natural leader behind the plate, very agile."
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Receiving. Zunino sets up with those super-closed knees, like he's hiding the signs from the ... pitcher. John Bench did this. (Bench, as a 19-year-old rookie, paused behind the plate for a long time when Willie Mays came up to the plate. Finally Bench said, "As soon as you're done looking, Willie, I'm ready to give the sign." Mays was peeking out of the corner of his eye.)
John, and Mike, set up on their toes, knees almost touching, shoulders hanging as loose as shower curtains, as though they could crouch there comfortably for approximately one presidential campaign. This despite the fact that John, and Mike, were linebacker-sized men. You're talking about 220-lb. men* who have better strength-to-weight ratio than the 180-lb. men around them. I doubt that middle infielders could get out of a squat position like Zunino can.
(One time Alex Johnson crashed into Bench at home plate; Johnson crumpled on the ground, was helped off and was asked later "Where does it hurt?" Johnson's reply, "Everywhere but the roof of my mouth." Bench flipped the ball back to the pitcher. Mike Zunino is that way: huge, lineman-class thighs, thick abdomen, shoulders, you know what I mean.)
Zunino sets up exceptionally low, hand way forward, head forward, and then tilts the glove up... somehow creating an un-strained impression. See this old Johnny Bench vid.
When they receive the ball they do it with a little decisive nod, "That's correct, pitcher," and the ump calls strike. There is a sureness to Zunino's catch of the ball that is opposed to (say) Montero's battle with the pitch and Jaso's tenuous competence. It is simply a pleasure to watch Zunino receive the ball, much more so than even Dan Wilson's receiving of the ball. You know how it's a pleasure to watch Franklin Gutierrez track down a fly ball? It's a pleasure to watch Zunino catch a pitch -- more so than anybody I've seen since, oh.... lemme think. 1979?
You'll see.
NEXT
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Comments
But I have a hunch that they're going to think in terms of 12 years for Mike Zunino, not 6...
If Zunino takes charge of the pitching staff in March :- ) it even becomes problematic how you keep him down 3 weeks in order to keep the 7th year of club control... at dugout level that probably means that the 2013 Mariners aren't "his" ...
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Bench was the best ever. Carter was The Kid. Pudge was Pudge. But Bench was Roy Hobbes in a chest protector.
Bench was so nimble that I was convinced that he should have been moved to 3B or 1B fulltime, where he would have GG'ed, as well, eventually, and may have well racked up a few more 40 homer seasons. Mays, Aaron, Schmidt, Bench, Ichiro, Morgan, Yount, Junior: Born to play.
Doc, the HoF video took me by surprise. I had forgotten how much of a front foot hitter, ala Aaron, that Bench was. Kind of Romero-like, to a degree.
And I'm with you. Zunino may get 25 games in Tacoma, but that's it, max. And your point about a former catcher appraising the skills of this catcher is a very good one.
Hobbesian (as in Roy, not Thomas) natural talent should be allowed to rise quickly. Morgan was 18 when he 1st played in the bigs, Yount, Junior and Bench all 19, Mays and Aaron 20. Wasn't Ichiro 12 or 13 when he 1st ripped up Japan. :)
Schmidt didn't make it until 23.
If Zunino has game, he's ready.
moe
If so then yes, Super Two dodging (as you put it) becomes obsolete. That seems just. ... Gordon what is your take on the "generalship" factor if Zunino were to dominate the pitching staff, so to speak, in March? You think the clubhouse would understand about three weeks in Tacoma and fall back in line in May?
Is out of a catching job, not for negative reasons, but for positive reasons. When Zunino is ready to go that particular day, you're going to want him in there.
It still remains a huge plus for Montero that he is capable of catching. Mike Napoli's catcher's gear has added greatly to his value long term; you don't know when an injury will occur, or what. But Montero is looking like he's the DH/1B cleanup hitter short term, now that a potential Gary Carter is kicking in the door.
Never dreamed Zunino would be like this.
Just a year in to someone's rookie deal, I would think we'll be happy to pay for that age-28 season at a reasonable cost in order to play him now.
As you've said for many years now, Doc - this year counts too. The Giants are pretty happy with what they've gotten from Posey and Lincecum - a couple of World Series titles that would not have been possible without two swiftly-promoted young talents - and we need to start deploying assets.
We can't play all of Hultzen/Paxton/Walker/Maurer/Ramirez/Ilwakuma/Felix... but that doesn't mean that we block em off or stall. Same with the Montero/Jaso/Zunino logjam. Work it out - we need good hitters.
~G
As soon as Zunino demonstrates the bat at ML level, you could offer an 8-year deal buying out two years of FA at (say) $14M, club option.
I wonder if, realistically, there is any way to get a feel for Zunino's receptiveness --- > before you set the Opening Day roster. I wonder if GM's and agents have any way to obliquely talk around that issue, "You guys at all interested in a Longoria situation down the road? Boy, Mike's looking like he's ready to go right away...."
He certainly seems to have more ceiling than that. He really is pushing the Posey comp HARD, and Buster Posey is THE offensive reason the Giants have two shiny rings to celebrate. He legitimized that lineup as a rook, much as Tulo did in Colorado early in his career while taking them to a WS.
Montero CAN catch, but if he ONLY wants to catch I am willing to trade him some place where he'll be allowed to do that. Either way, he seems to do much better while playing in the field, so I hope his 1B training is going well. Montero as our Konerko (another former C and teen phenom with the bat) and Zunino as our Posey would be terrific. Now that the park shouldn't demolish them it'll be even better.
And no, I don't think the club would much understand if Zunino is a Delgado type with the bat but was sent down ONLY to spend 3 weeks in the minors and stall on his FA year. Like I said, I wouldn't mess with it in his case. If it's gonna be his staff, then let it be his staff. Don't jerk Montero or Zunino around about it any further.
If we punt on Smoak and pay Hamilton a dumptruck full of money, we look like this:
Ackley / Seager / Zunino / Hamilton / Montero / Saunders / Guti / Jaso / Ryan
With Franklin hitting for Ryan against righties if we choose to platoon at SS.
That's... if those hitters do what they should be CAPABLE of doing, that could be a scary lineup for opposing pitchers.
Run a rotation of Felix/Iwakuma/Erasmo/Paxton/Hultzen out there, with Capps/Pryor/Furbush/Wilhelmsen in the pen?
We suddenly look really interesting.
But it starts with getting the people into the rotation and the lineup who need to be there, in the positions they need to be in. And if Hamilton won't sign, then we've got to get a trade or two in place.
Can't ask Zunino to do it on his own. That was our mistake with Ackley/Smoak last year.
~G
If I were in his shoes I'd be agitated about the losing to date, and in a frame of mind to get things rolling this year...
Interesting to hear that you share the suspicion that the Zunino freeze-out could have repercussions that could potentially threaten the season...
I agree that Gordon's line-up looks at least equal to the Giants IF it has Hamilton or someone (Stanton?) reasonably comparable in the middle of it. Hard to imagine that's going to be Zunino this soon. Would love it if true, but doubt it. Which, without a Hamilton type, leaves us exactly where we were last winter. We have a lot of assets, true, but almost all are either lacking experience or truly big bats.
And what would happen to Jaso if Zunino were ready - split DH/C/1b duties?
On Bench: I remember how angry I was after the 76 sweep of the Yankees. Munson hit over .500 in the series and Sparky had the temerity to say afterwards that he was a nice player, but to seriously mention him in the same breath as Bench was madness. I was rooting for the Yanks and was irked not that he said it, but that it was true. He was so much better than any other catcher at everything, probably ever, it didn't seem fair. Plus, Doc, how could you possibly root for a team that had both Pete Rose and Joe Morgan? Musta been the drugs.
Back in 1974 I was a freshman shortstop who could hit a little. In '75 I was again a shortstop who could hit a little. In '76 I lead my team in batting average. In my senior year of 1977 I lead my conference in batting average and had a look-see from some college coaches and even a pro scout (my rather small stature chased all of them away). At my very last game as a high schooler I had a college coach come up to me and say that my batting style reminded him of Joe Morgan.
Really? It took 4 years for someone to finally notice that I was emulating one of the more unique stances in all of baseball? Sheeeeeesh!
If anyone is wondering, yes, I went to a small school in a small school type of conference, but I'd rather have been a big fish in a tiny pond than no fish at all....