Lotto tickets and writeoffs

Q.  Did you predict Chris Jakubauskas to win 15 games?

A.  I did not.  Thanks for asking.

This is one that bears clarification, because [big smile guys] the shaving-cream pies are getting a little old.  The idea is that since we misunderstood Jakubauskas, we're probably misunderstanding Fister.

:: ahem ::  :: taps microphone ::

First:  we didn't say Jaku would probably succeed.  We said that we would move him to the front of the #5-6 line, ahead of Olson, Vargas and the 85 RRS.

We misunderstand lots of guys:  Zito, Lopez, Washburn, Gutierrez, the list goes on.  Jakubauskas is one of the few we didn't :- ) and here we are, thinking that he invalidates Doug Fister.

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Q.  "First?"  What's second.  There's a caveat?

A.  The one that we use most of the time.  We asked:  will Jakubauskas execute his pitches?

Our own tentative 30-40% projection for Jaku to help in some degree or other was based on a certain premise.  And we stated  itverrrrrrrrry carefully.

That premise of a 30-40% chance to help was that Jakubauskas would execute his pitches just as well, in hot sun exposure, as he did in the cool shade of the bullpen duties.  

We warned that he might not do so.   This is always the question when a pitcher moves into an ML rotation for the first time.   It's the same thing we're watching for tonight, on Fister -- not, does he give up runs.  But, does he execute his own game.

...................

The fact is that he got into the rotation and Chris Jakubauskas stopped executing his pitches.  In the 'pen he had been painting, and changing speeds.  He went into the rotation and for several games threw literally 85, 90% fastballs. 

I got into a little wrangle with Billy1 about it at the time.   "Does Chris Jakubauskas really seem like the kind of pitcher who should be leading the league in % of fastballs thrown?"

.................

That wasn't even the biggest problem.  Be it nerves, or lack of ability, or whatever, he started throwing with mediocre command.

It wasn't Chris Jakubauskas that attracted our attention.  It was the template-- the possibility of plus-plus command with effective offspeed stuff.  Jaku stopped providing this template, as we specifically warned that he might.

Now, because I opined that Jaku was a better lotto ticket than the hopeless Olson, Sandy and others remember me as having predicted 15 wins.  Nada.

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Q.  But you are predicting Fister for 15 wins next year?

A.  No!  No!  No!  :- )

My current odds are against Doug Fister even being in the rotation for 2010!  

It says here that Fister gives a 33% chance to succeed, vs. French's 5% chance.   Can we remember that, this time, after Fister starts grooving 88 mph meatballs?  ;- )

D-O-V is not selling Doug Fister as a probable "find"!  I'm intrigued by his potential to execute these pitches.  Call it a 30%, 40% chance to execute like this, and if so, he's a good starter.   If not, he's gone.

.

Q.  Why are you so biased toward the Fister / Jaku template?

A.  An 88 mph fastball, on the black, is a whale of a pitch.  And some guys can repeat it.   I'd like to know whether Doug Fister is one of them.   Catfish Hunter went to the Hall of Fame by nailing the black with a mediocre fastball.

95% of all good major league pitchers have a "calling card" weapon.  Fister offers the possibility of a "calling card" weapon -- plus-plus command of his fastball.

Luke French, by contrast, has no plus weapon, which is why scouts refer to him as a "dime-a-dozen" lefty.

I could be wrong on that; I often am.  But it's not bias against lefties.  We love Ryan Rowland-Smith, right?  It's bias against pitchers who have no right cross to work with.

.....................

D-O-V is warning, very emphatically, that Doug Fister might stop executing his pitches.  Like, tonight.   Get it?, Got it!, Good.  :- )

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Q.  How does Fister look, now, compared to Jaku, back in his first appearances?

A.  Tons better. 

Jakubauskas' fastball was always much straighter (though faster) and Fister has already done a lot more to demonstrate consistent control than Jaku did.

Jaku has a quality overhand curve, but doesn't throw it.  Fister has an excellent change and he does throw it.

Jaku, an indy-league reclamation, went deer-in-the-headlights when he got a start.  Doug Fister has mound presence that Felix Hernandez could learn from.

So, yeah, I want to see more of Fister.  He's got a shot.

BABVA,

Dr D

Comments

1
Taro's picture

"It says here that Fister gives a 33% chance to succeed, vs. French's 5% chance."
And thats where I disagree. French has already been successful at the MLB level this year (a league-average SP in Detroit and Seattle thats been squeezed), if you're projecting him to him to fail then you're predicting him to fall off extremely from where hes already at. French's FIP is 4.48 and his ERA is 3.88 despite getting the rookie treatment from the umps (which artificially inflates his BB/9).
I guess its possible that French has a 95% of never being as good as he already has been, but I think its an extreme opinion. Both prospects aren't THAT different in value IMO, they just go about it in different ways.
 

2

So had Olson and Vargas early on :- )
But I did like the FB's that French threw, when he got on top of the ball last night.  That's where I personally see some daylight for him -- that his stuff can get better.  
If he gets on top of the FB, and gets back to that real good curve, well, his change is already good, and he could emerge.
5% is probably too harsh. 

5
Sandy - Raleigh's picture

Olson and Vargas both had the SAME death knell -- the home run.  In truth, you look at Olson's results EXCLUDING the long ball, and he's scary close to Washburn.  His hits against is INCREDIBLE, (considering the gopher rate).  Vargas gave up a LOT more non-HR hits, but the gohperitis continued to get worse that longer both played.
THUS FAR, French hasn't shown anywhere near the same problem with the long ball.  Whatever weakness he may appear to have on the mound, it has NOT manifested itself in dingers ... yet. 
Honestly, I still see Olson as the more likely guy to fix what ails him, (the long ball).  But, I certainly wouldn't bet on him doing so.  Like Jaku, I could see both succeeding in the pen, (though that could fail, because HRs are just as deadly to relievers as starters). 
I'm just a little perplexed that everyone is so quick to right off the YOUNGER (by 2 years), of the F-troopers.

6
Taro's picture

My eyes and the numbers suggest that French has better stuff than either.
 About 1-2% points better SwS% than Vargas in AAA+MLB and WAY better than Olson. French's SwS% was 2 times higher than Olson in AAA. His SwS% in the MLB is also double. Statistically hes similar to Vargas except with slightly better stuff, command, and no gopheritis.
FYI French had an 11.5 SwS% in AAA to Fister's 6.2%, and Fister had a 67.6 Strike% vs French's 65.6% which backs my opinion that French has better stuff but slightly less command than Fister. 
Fister followed up French's strong start with a strong start of his own today. I didn't see it, but statistically he did it with less dominance than French, more strikes, more GBs, and gave up a HR.
Honestly, I'm really starting to get tired of comparing the two. Both of these guys have been encouraging lately as potential starters beyond '09, why can't we get excited about both?

7
OOBF's picture

for a while (I have been visiting family in the extremely beautiful aleutian islands, not much in the way of TV or internet access though ;) ), so I am reading old DOV articles getting caught up and this comment will probably not be seen by anyone, but oh well I usually talk just to hear myself anyways :)
If the goal for Jaku (and Vargas and Olson and French and Fister) was to have a 30-40% chance to help the big league team then I think that we can say that they have ALL succeeded.  Every MLB team needs 6/7 starters and swing men and long men in the pen, and each on of those guys has had success, at least for a few games, in one or more of those roles.  I remember a few years ago whne we were cycling through the negottes, Fierebends, Weavers, and HoRams of the world and thnking out loud through bombing after nombing, "Why can;t we call up a guy and just ONCE have him throw a decent start right off the bat?"  With all five of these guys we have had that (a good start or two), and while the jury is still out on all of them, they each have found a role for the team.  Jaku filled in very well as the long man out of the pen, usurping Batista out of that role, and keeping a lot of gamnes close, or taking on for the team when the game was already out of reach, I think he has probably cemented that role for the immediate future (0nce he comes back of the DL for shoulder stiffness).  Both Olson and Vargas filled in very admirably for a while as #5 men, and both had some success also coming out of the pen, especially Olson as a LOOGY.  Both are still candidates for that #5 spot going forward, and both could be used as swing men out of the pen or LOOGYs.  Now French and Fister are getting thier chance to stick in the rotation and so far the results are very good.  Anyways  all I am saying is all FIVE of these guys already have helped the big league team and continue to have a very good chance to provide goo cheap pitching in future years.  All five of these guys are GREAT guys to have hanging around our team.  Instead of bickering about which guy is better maybe we should be thankful we don;t have to deal with the 8 million dollar Dream Weaver, or the "I wish we still had Soriano" Ramerez's anymore!

8

the performances that Capt Jack and Wok have coaxed, and are coaxing, out of their #5-9 SP's.  :- )
The Mariners are STILL leading the American League in ERA, and it's Felix and a coop full of chickens out there.
The defense is a big part of it, of course.  But consider how many starts the M's have had from AAA pitchers.   Number one?

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