Ichiro in the 1 slot

=== Ichiro and Chone Figgins ===

Mojician with a sterling thread on Ichiro's spot in the batting order.  

As anon noted, you can argue lost-AB's vs fielder's-choices vs RBI ... the only problem is that Ichiro simply wants to hit first.  Wakamatsu discreetly reminds everybody of this from time to time.

Chone Figgins was quoted on this recently.  Hey, I take a lot of pitches, Figgins said.  You might as well let Ichiro run while I'm working the pitcher.  I'm willing to hit second.

Figgins was being a good teammate.  He knows that Ichiro will hit where he wants to hit.  (Figgins played 158 games for the Angels in 2009, and guess how many times he led off?  158.  He's comfortable hitting 1, but Ichiro has seniority.)

.............

Was indeed interesting to see Ichiro mentioned as the most-feared hitter, and in fact Ichiro has led the league in IBB's several times.

Ichiro is indeed s-c-a-r-y with two men on in a tie game.  Figgins gamely argues that you want the 80 walks in the 2 hole .... my response?  I don't think that taking pitches with a SB king means much at all.  I think Ichiro runs according to his own agenda, regardless of what the hitter's doing.

I DO think that Ichiro's SLG means something.  He hits for considerably more gap power than Figgins.  In a vacuum, you'd want Figgins' BB's first, and Ichiro's smoked base hits next. 

.

=== Ichiro and Pete Rose ===

There was a ballplayer in my childhood days who shared precisely Ichiro's attitude.  Pete Rose's very highest priority was getting to his 200th base hit in the year, and then seeing how many more than 200 he could get.

I wonder if you'd told Pete, when he was 28, that he'd pass Ty Cobb for most hits.  Did Rose scheme this from early in his career?

The Big Red Machine might have been even better, if it had put Rose #2 or #3 in the order, perhaps let Ken Griffey Sr. lead off.  But that wasn't a viable option.  It wasn't worth the fight with Rose, who wanted to hit #1 and who wanted to play 162 games, as Ichiro does.

I don't think of Ichiro as selfish, but Pete Rose was, and Joe Morgan's comment on this was "Pete Rose was the most selfish teammate I ever had, and for that reason he was the best teammate I ever had."  Rose's obsession with base hits, meant..... bases for the Cincinnati Reds.

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=== Alas, Babylon Dept. ===

It's a real shame that Ichiro doesn't hit more often in the MIDDLE of rallies.  There's no prettier sight in Safeco -- Mariners 2, Angels 3, two or three men on base and Ichiro stepping up to the plate.  But Ichiro wants his 230 hits.

All you can do is put better hitters in the 8-9 slots.  The Mariners have been dreadful in the 8-9 slots, but they're getting there.

Blengino, on the radio the other day was it?  Or in a Times article?, was asked what it was like to take over a 100-loss team.  His reply, the way we looked at it, all you have to do is get adequate players into the holes and bang, you have a big improvement.

Put mediocre hitters 8-9 and bang, you'll get to see Ichiro hit in the middle of rallies again.  Unfortunately, it's looking like Jack Wilson #9...

Blengino's mantra, you can't have a two-way star at 9 positions.  True, notice in fairness that the M's extreme emphasis on defense is underlined in situations like this.  Ichiro will seldom hit in the middle of rallies for the D-oriented M's.

Well, Rose hit behind the pitcher.  :- )   Take the good with the bad.

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=== Rosy Finish Dept. ===

Figgins in 2009 ..... when (1) not leading off, (2) leading off any inning, and (3) leading off the game:

  • .298/.395/.393 - all AB's
  • .275/.358/.370 - leading off any inning, 1 through 9 (full 300 PA's)
  • .243/.348/.331 - leading off the game (158 PA's)
  • .330/.430/.430 - guesstimated stats when not leading off any inning

So Figgins' OBP was .330 when leading off the ballgame, but his OBP was about .430 in AB's wherein he got to spend some time on deck.

Amplifying this, we have observed that batters perform better-than-their-norms when hitting behind Ichiro.  Do these two factors multiply to create a .425 OBP season for Figgins?

Cheers,

Dr D

Comments

1
Taro's picture

As Hiromitsu Ochiai (one of the all greatest NPB hitters ever) said, " I think (Ichiro is) the world's greatest #2 hitter."

2

Expand a bit on what you think he's emphasizing there?

3

Looking at the ISO for both Ichiro and Chone, I really don't see any difference at all.
Career-wise, Chone: .097 -- Ichiro .101.  So, we're arguing RBI machine based on 4 points of ISO?!?  Heck, if not for the .042 ISO from 2008 for Chone, (he HAD to be hurt), I think he might have a higher career ISO.  (It was .107 prior to the 2008 debacle - and he posted a .096 in 2009.)
Look at their career 2B/3B/HR lines per 162 games?
Ichiro: 26/8/10
Chone: 26/9/5
An extra HR every 5 weeks?!?  Heck, they're darn near identical hitters if you equate 50 infield hits to 50 walks.  (But Ichiro looks lots better on the OPS chart, mostly because those infield singles get added to BOTH OBP and Slugging.)  Me?  I'm not in favor of putting *ANY* single-digit-per-year Home Run hitter in the #3 slot. 

4
Taro's picture

Ochiai thought that Ichiro would a better fit in the 2 spot of the lineup than any other hitter in the world (before he went over to NPB). :-)

5

Right, but I mean, I wonder if Ochiai is thinking about the extra RBI from the 2 slot, that the 2 is the perfect combination for .350 singles with speed, or...
Probably the same things we mean by 2 hitting in America, I spose.

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