I enjoyed this Full Disclosure. So much so that we're going to troll for more old feebs confessing their allegiances to Roy Campanella and Preacher Roe ...
"The glory of young men is their strength; gray hair is the splendor of old men." In sabermetric terms ... a recent college graduate has more energy and interest to stay caught-up and cutting-edge with more clinical research. You don't see 55-year-olds pick up a guitar and spend the next 8 years "sitting on the edge of my bed playing through Eric Clapton with a six-pack of Schlitz" as Eddie Van Halen put it. You've got to have the dreams of conquest to go along with the info download.
DaddyO said, "And apologies to all those to whom these memories mean little or nothing. I hope you can indulge us. All I can say is what older people have always told younger people: 'Just wait, you'll do it too some day.' " Yep! :- ) But, am guessing that some of the kiddies have noticed that Grampa's stories can be interesting at times.
From my own point of view, it hadn't really hit me that half of the best commenters here had personally watched Sandy Koufax. That explains a lot, now doesn't it?
||Poster's remarks in Claudell Washington roundtable
||Prof (I assume ...)
||1959 Go-Go White Sox, Luis Aparicio SS
||Marte could = Aparicio offensively
||1968 Cardinals, Bob Gibson (& Hayes-Alcindor game!)
||SS's and CF's can interchange
||1972 Reds; dimly remember '70 Series
||Too self-effacing to express an opinion
||Dad was baseball writer
||Didn't transition to M's till '84
||Officer, subs / carriers etc
||1955 Braves, Hank Aaron, Warren Spahn
||Marte = Aparicio / Pagan = viable
||Biology mag editor
||1960's, Segui v Aparicio
||LA Times, book author
||1957, Mantle, Fox, Berra et al
||Pending book on Felix + Change Speed game
||1960's, Lou Brock trade, saw Ernie Banks
Didn't leave a line for Tuner and the tables have to be pre-set. Sorry amigo. If you're getting ads from AARP you're in the subcommittee ...
What type of ignitor are we talking about? The classic for me is Henderson/Raines and I don't think he's in that speed range. Ichiro is mentioned and although it's Alvin Davis that had the AL rookie record for IBB (16) Ichiro accruing 10 tells a lot about how quickly he was respected ....
Looking at Aparicio by the numbers, he looks like Jose Reyes with just a bit less pep and pop. It seems that can be enough to be the best a franchise has ever had there ...
Jose Pagan...did you pick him because of moving off SS, lesser SB totals? The more I look at those stats. ..I thought Jose Lopez was an insult, geez. 46 SB in 15 years? I'm looking at these offensive stats thinking "Betancourt put up better numbers here".
Were you envisioning the defense with those comparisons or have you not tried the KoolAid?
Ketel has 100 MiL SB and I'm looking for an offensive profile that incorporates that. Doing a 7-degrees-of-most-similar-by-age isn't getting me anywhere. Ray Durham with less pop (but at SS...)
Several dozens of players I've looked through now and I find Barry Larkin. Larkin without the pop? I'm not gonna claim he's that good, their pedigrees vary greatly to that point. Thier first cups are eerily similar though so let's check similarity score...Rewarded with:
Tony Fernandez who was listed in the previous chat by Tacoma Rain who also pushes Rennie Stennett.
All of them eventually clear the 10 HR plateau that Marte may not. But offensively he seems like he could fit in there somewhere. That list ranges from 75SB (Stennett) to 314 (Furcal).
Maybe I'm too hopeful still?
Great comment amigo! Hmm ... supposing we're talking about .300 hitters (neutral park) with okay walks and 30 stolen bases. Enough power to sting the ball at times, like Ichiro and Carew, but of course not 18-homerish power. That's what I'm HOPING for from Ketel Marte.
The thing about Luis Aparicio and Ozzie Smith were that they were valid "lineup ignitors" AS DOMINANT GLOVE MEN - both were known as the #1 defensive players (any position) in their leagues. If a vintage Leonys Martin gave you leadoff hitter production, that would be the kind of player we'd be talking about. Dr. D personally resists these player pairings.
In the HOF class we mentioned Mr. 3000s like Pete Rose, Tony Gwynn and Rod Carew; that's the 95th percentile of this template. As we noted here, Marte at age 21 had a better major league season than any of them did. I hope we don't have to spell out for youngsters' benefit that a couple hundred at-bats is different from 25 years' worth of All-Star games.
Jose Altuve has a "specialness" to his HIT tool that sets him way apart. You can't compare any rookie to Steph Curry until he does what Curry does, but here's the template. 3000 hits career, 30ish stolen bases, 8 homers, 30ish doubles. Doesn't it seem twice as hard to play the Astros when Altuve is leading off? That's what Diderot is getting at, I think.
Ben Revere plays the OF but is a certified .300 hitter. If Marte turns out to have zero power, a pure slap hitter of Aoki magnitude, that's the variation he's going for. Marco Scutaro isn't so different and there's the multi-position flex guy that Moe and others have talked about. If Ketel Marte becomes Marco Scutaro, we'll all be tickled pink.
Jose Reyes over the period 2010-15 batted .294/.340/.427 with 30 stolen bases a year. You can just hear the Mariner scouts, off in the distance, laughing maniacally. Michael Brantley is similar at the plate.
Daniel Murphy and Charlie Blackmon are also in the general territory, excellent HIT tool, good not great speed, okay BBs and bat velocity.
Somebody brought up Derek Jeter. ("Somebody"? hey, this is AARP!) Cool, if you're talking about the Later Derek Jeter. Early on, Jeter had lots of power. But ages 36-38 he lost some of that, and posted the 110 OPS's that caused him to descend into this conversation.
At any rate. If and when you can get an $0.5M starter who is an average-solid contributor, you've taken a whale of a long step towards the World Series. April and May will be fun to watch at shortstop.
Now where'd I put that Geritol,