Up in Smoak
same dude, different year. How many more years does he get?

To piggy-back my irritation at Smoak's ABs last night onto Doc’s great post of collected thoughts here

Justin Smoak let go another SICKENING!! procession of center-cut 89 MPH fastballs today.  You watch the game for 40 years and you still can't begin to comprehend it... Smoak tenses his muscles so epically as he gathers himself to launch the bat.  Then, getting the 89 MPH pitch bisecting the plate and 8 inches above the knees, he reacts precisely like Jay Buhner did when he got a Pedro Martinez overhand curve ball.  "Ahhhh, man.  That pitch is so sick.  Maybe I'll get 'im tomorrow."

 

So. Very. Frustrating. He got the pitch.  He KEEPS GETTING the pitch to drive, he just isn't driving it.  And the more it happens, the more of a burr in my saddle it becomes.  With Seager, I figure he'll climb out of that tailspin.  Smoak has given zero indications he knows how to fly that plane, let alone recover it.

JDDub mentions in that thread that Smoak is a HUGE, Vin-Baker-level disappointment to the home team, and I can't argue at all.

We talked a lot about the net drill this offseason, and about whether Smoak could get less greedy – take the double into the gap and give up waving at a theoretical HR ball that will never come.  Through the first two weeks, I have to say it started off promisingly... but it looks like Same Ol’ Smoak at this point.

Smoak swinging through those high-80s meatballs on hitter’s counts that are sitting DEAD IN THE CENTER OF THE PLATE is driving me crazy.  Crazy.  I don’t know why he swings like he wants a home run off of all of those pitches – he doesn’t have 40 HR power.  He hasn’t shown 30 HR power. He didn’t have HR power in the minors.  He’s a big guy but whatever power he had in his rookie season is gone.  I remember him going the other way in Safeco in the cold months and hitting it WAY over the wall.  Wherever that guy went, Smoak can’t seem to find him.  Maybe everything has to be perfect for that to happen, but the guy has forgotten too many of the Qualities Of A Good Hitter for me to ever be comfortable with him regaining that early glimpse of glory.

--------------------------

I was okay with last year’s Smoak. Not great or even good, but way better than the 2nd-half 2011 through 2012 version and a useful step on the growth path.  He doesn't seem to be taking any more steps in the early going and his current level is nothing like his first-half of his rookie season, before they put the book out on him.  That's sort of the problem though –he’s never adjusted back to the league.  He may simply not have the skillset as a hitter to improve once the league took away his bread-n-butter.

Minors career:
Choi, age 19-22:
.312/.414/.513, 39.4% XBH rate .80 batting eye
Smoak, age 21-23ish: .278/.397/.445, 35.4% XBH rate, .90 batting eye

Smoak was rushed through the minors, but so was Choi believe me and without the benefit of college ball – and Choi CLEARLY has outperformed Smoak in basically everything.  Justin took a couple more walks, but as we’ve seen that’s because he was passive and waited for the pitcher to screw up. That kind of walk rate stops working as well in the bigs – pitchers will throw strikes if they know you can’t square them up.

Smoak in the bigs: .228/.314/.388, 36.0% XBH rate, .50 batting eye

Smoak’s minor league ISO was .167. His big-league one? .160.  That’s just his power curve with wood bats, apparently.  His ISOw dropped from .119 (outrageously great) to .086 (very good).  Walking is the one decent skill that Smoak absolutely possesses, but his inability to square up a centered fastball – or changeup, or hung curve, or underhand pitch – is killing him, and us.  And it’s not getting better. He’s a 20-doubles / 20-homer man on a team that could use 60 XBHs from its power infielder, not 40. 

Not to mention that walking a bunch doesn’t help enough when you can’t hit either HRs or singles and you run like the basepaths were placed over quicksand.  The inability to hit even .250 is a crusher.

Smoak is not a booming first baseman, and at this point looks like he never will be.  He can’t hit for average. His first base comps with lines like those are the likes of Boog Powell (in a different era), John Mayberry (senior, not the one we drafted along with Texas who also had terrible power), the dying gasps of Carlos Pena and Troy Glaus

It’s the sort of line you ignominiously end your career with as a power hitter at a bat position, not what you put up in your prime. Four guys have had a 1500+ PA career with those kinds of average / walks / power ratios since 1970:  Smoak, Daric Barton, Dan Johnson and Greg Brock (who hit in the 80s when everyone was worthless for power). Not a glorious list, or a long one - it's hard to have a long career where you hit few singles and fewer power shots, and build your whole career around a devalued OBP because you are incapable of hitting the ball the other way (or bunting against the shift, but let's not go there, I'm already angry).

--------------------------

When we traded for Smoak, the guy whose career I didn’t want him to emulate was Daric Barton. I fondly remember conversations where Lyle Overbay was referenced as Smoak's floor.  Hence the Vin-Baker-level disappointment. At the time we HAD to trade for a first baseman because we didn't have a soul in the minors worth his salt at the position, but at least now we do.  Choi is a bonafide hitter, and even if he "just" hits like Country Breakfast (aka Billy Butler) that's still a world better than what Smoak is doing. 

Peterson and Kivlehan are both on the horizon as well with a nice showing this season. None of them are traditional 6'5 blocks of wood at the position who smash 40 bombs... but neither is Smoak.  And honestly, those kinds of first basemen are getting harder to find; the number of future-40-HR first basemen currently in the minors approximates zero. If Choi can do a decent Joey Votto Lite impression that'll be more than enough for me.

So my question: we have Smoak on a contract with a vesting option for next season ($3.6 mil in 2015). If he keeps hitting like his mediocre .240/.320/.410 self, do you wanna:

a) Keep him through that vesting option for his defense and OBP
b) Trade him at the deadline for SOMEthing, a la the Angels with Kotchman, before the league figures out he’s a meatball
c) Work something out in the offseason with a team that values an Oakland-style, post-Giambi first baseman?

And does your answer change if Choi continues to go bonkers on the PCL for the next few months? Choi can always come up and replace LoMo or Hart at DH if they struggle, after all. We don’t HAVE to jettison Smoak to make room, and he’s not worthless.  His D at first base is less valuable now that we don’t have Franklin AND Miller trying to transition to the bigs as bat-first men at glove positions, but first base defense is still useful.

But my aggravation levels with Smoak keep rising...

Blog: 

Comments

1

Hard to watch the same thing over and over again. Ackley was right there with Smoak but with Dustin he isn't sitting around in a 2 strike hole popping up or rolling over to the 2B every AB this season. He is attacking some earlier offerings with gusto. That's progress I can get behind and enjoy following. Along with this Smoak theme I'm glad I had the game DVR'd for that Beavan start. Even if the results are ok I can't sit and enjoy watching any longer. Had to ffwd through the bottom half of the inning when he took the mound.
Smoak. Beavan. Cut bait and try something else. I know you can do it Z, you did it with Noesi and Figgins eventually.

2

I was gonna make this another article, but I'm out of time today. ;-) So the summary notes instead.
Ackley's biggest problem was being too passive with pitches he could hit.
Smoak's is that he HAS to be passive because he can't make enough contact with pitches.
Ackley right now isn't drawing walks, but that's because people are still throwing the ball in the zone to him and he's making the kind of contact he should. I expect his walks to go back up once people move off the plate to him (right now he's seeing 10% more pitches in the zone than average).  Smoak is just hoping for 4 zone misses before he gets to three strikes. 
Like you said, Dustin is clearing up his passivity - his next step is to stay aggressive in the zone but avoid pitches out of it... which shouldn't be a problem because he's already good at that.  His OSwing% has always been 20% better than average (which is a lot). His problem was his ridiculously low Zswing%, one of the lowest if not the lowest in the league.  He doesn't swing at stuff he can't hit, so hopefully that continues even in his more aggressive state; it has so far.  If he's done watching pitches he CAN hit sail by, then watch out league.  He wasn't the college hitter of the decade for nothing.  Even a small percentage uptake in swings on pitches he can drive would be a huge help, as this year's small pool so far shows.
Smoak, OTOH, has turned into a groundball maniac early in the season who isn't hitting as many line drives as he used to. And his contact percentages are right about where they always are (ie, a little below league average rate-wise).  He's just not a guy who makes enough contact to expect a sea-change in results just by changing approach, unlike Dustin who consistently is several percentage points above league average in contact, whether inside or outside the zone.  Dustin can put bat to ball - he always has.  When he's not constantly fighting a rear-guard action with 2 quick strikes on him, I'm fascinated to see what he can do.
Smoak just looks like Smoak.  Different approach, new attitude, same results.  Smoak still looks like Spring Training hype, even though he started the year more relaxed. Dustin doesn't look like a mirage.  Maybe Smoak's new approach will provide more results against lesser pitching. I'll take what I can get.
But I save my excitement for Dustin's results, not Justin's.
~G

4
OBF's picture

Just give Franklin a 1B glove, or switch him and Ackley (Franklin to LF, Ackley to 1b) and call it good. Smoak can go away now... I along with the rest of Marinerdom are just sick of him!

5

The moment you get a better option, trade him. What really frustrates me about Smoak seeming to settle into a low-rent production level is his fielding. I REALLY like his fielding, and it would have been a tremendous boon to the team if he could even reach what we envisioned as his mid-level career potential. The guy saves runs with his glove. But his offense isn't sufficient for his glove to carry him.
The first series against the Angels seems far, far behind us in the rearview mirror.
I know everybody here thinks Ackley is on his way now, but I'm not yet convinced. Me, I'm waiting until I see his mid-season numbers, and even then I want to see what he does over a full season before I start pronouncing him fixed. Let's see him put up a .280 / .330 / .435 full season with 30-plus doubles. I know he's over that right now, and I know what he did second half last year. But to me that's the minimum full-season production I'll have to see to consider him fixed. The guy has the talent to do considerably better even than that. He's trying. He's improved somewhat. I want to see more, and I want to see it sustained over time.

6

Greedy and dumb is no way to go through life, Justin. His swing is often long, slow and greedy. And he appears to be too dumb to realize it.
That first week, he was short to the ball and that was letting him turn on the inside FB - and that swing was vicious. Fast, compact and loaded with power. Haven't really seen it since. He just loooooooves to get his arms extended but his bat speed is horrific when he does it.
They cold dump Smoak, sign Morales and split 1B/DH between Hart and Kendrys. Not that Hart is hitting but at least he owns some skill that we can hope manifests once the rust is finally shaken off.

7

Smoak has a .927 OPS this season against right handers, .839 last season, yet remains mired in the mid .500's against the lefties (.583, .548 respectively). We need Corey Hart to play some first for us. Could be a great platoon, with Corey's .893 lifetime OPS against lefties.

9

Thanks G,
I posted earlier today and the day before yesterday that Smoak is exactly what you see: Lousy average, decent eye and 22 homers.
He gets there in "Smoak-ing hot" alternating with really cold streaks. There is no "mediocre" Smoak, over more than a handful of games.
Our problem is that we've invested this much time in him and are unwilling to give up hope. Right now he's at .245-.315 and slugging in the mid-400's...that is his absolute high side over a season. He's maxed out at about 125 OPS, I think.
If he isn't good enough right now, then he isn't good enough next year. The hard thing right now is to dump him this early in the season. I can't see even Mac doing that. In many ways, for McClendon it would be just like bailing out on Almonte right now.
I said last year that we were stuck with Smoak. That remains true.
He's much more valuable in the NL where his switch hitting give him a PH bonus. But unless we're going to punt right now, get used to him for another 145 games.
Edit: But he is probably more valuable in trade right now then he's ever been (Well...since we swapped for him). Even at that, you're not getting much for him. I will bet, however, that you could have got a Pirate OF for him over the winter...or in ST.

10
muddyfrogwater's picture

Logan Morrison and Justin Smoak are completely redundant to one another. I wouldn't be shocked if Morrison was a better first baseman. Smoak seems ordinary at the position. Yea, Smoak has good hands and all, but rarely does anything remarkable on sharply hit grounders. Unfortunately the days of .800 OPS guys laying around as spare parts are gone.

11

A Smoak-Hart platoon at first would be powerful. Or if you don't like Smoak, there's Choi-Hart or maybe Morrison-Hart. Hart played 103 games at first base in 2012. The answer seems obvious to me, so long as Hart's knees are up to it. If he can run the bases, he should be able to handle the occasional start against the lefties. And hey, Now we have Franklin around for DH duty besides, and Romero can get his time there as well. Keep Smoak away from left handers and he's an excellent bat - up,there with Cano actually. Since 2012 he's been OPSing over .850 easily, and over .900 this year.

12

He's better against lefties at basically .900, but no way do you platoon that dude against same-handed pitching unless you really think he's lost it. He wouldn't let you anyway - he's playing with incentives in his contract and for a longer-term deal next year. No way is that guy getting 250 PAs unless his leg falls off.
So it's not technically gonna be a platoon with Hart - I don't care where Hart is playing, he'll be playing a lot unless he falls off a cliff, and then another cliff below that cliff. What we need is a hitter who only hits lefties to make a platoon work.
This is where you want Montero around.
Career splits, bigs: .830 vs lefties, .630 vs righties
Minors splits since 2011: 1.060 vs lefties, .700 vs righties
He could even catch a little when needed. He can't do ANYthing else, but could we find a slot for him that way? I don't like his D at first, or the way he runs the bases, or his getting popped for steroids, but I would take a lil RH thunder to ADD to Hart and Romero and Zunino in the lineup.
Don't see it, though.  Buck is here to help Zunino with the youngsters just learning the ropes on the mound.  You don't take Paxton, Walker, Elias, E-Ram, Farquhar, etc, and entrust them to Montero in any way.  Like giving the keys to the Porsche to your teenage son on prom night. With a case of Johnny Walker Black in the trunk.
Romero has been worthless the first few weeks - do you keep giving him all the at-bats? He's worse than Smoak against lefties, somehow.
*shrugs* Might just need to play a lefty who can also hit lefties. LoMo has been atrocious this year at everything, but his lefty splits aren't abominable - he can survive lefties, he just can't punish them (slugging goes down the drain, a la Franklin as a righty). Saunders doesn't punish anyone, righties or lefties, which is the weirdest thing.  His splits are good, but his totals are relatively terrible for a guy with that much talent. We don't have a lot of lefties who hit lefties really well. 
Well, there is Choi (who basically has no split when you even out the BABIP noise)... ;-)
~G

13

I don't mean platooning Hart so that he sits against righties, Gordon. Hart plays 1st against lefties and DH against righties. Smoak sits against lefties. When Hart plays first, Franklin or Romero can DH.

14

The only way to platoon with Smoak is to bring up Montero, but there's no roster spot for him to take except Romero's, but since Lloyd isn't willing to make Saunders the everyday RF, that doesn't work either.
I suppose if you made Franklin your everyday RF it would work.  Two innings in spring training and he's good to go, right?
Later in the summer, though ... you could replace Saunders and Romero with Blash and Montero and that might work.
Oddly, Blash is hitless vs. LHP so far this year (0-for-8).  Just a weird glitch though, he slugged .626 vs. LHP in 2013.

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