OK, We Got Younger and More Athletic. That Was Nice.
mmmmmmmmmm i think that one's got the distance


If you are blowing off your +15 runs CF, that being Jarrod Dyson, to put -5 defense Mitch Haniger into CF so you can pursue J.D. Martinez ... ?  And simultaneously pursuing a -7 defense Big Bat at first?  That young, athletic thingy was a nice trip to the Bahamas, right?


Greg Johns flatly states that Heredia and Haniger will handle CF.  That would be so that the M's can pursue a bat in the corner, and there are a lot on the FA market:  J.D. Martinez, Justin Upton, Jose Bautista, Andrew McCutchen.  Or, both Boomstick and Ohtani get into the same lineup in a Haniger scenario.

(TELL me it's not FUN to talk about Shohei Ohtani as our lefty #7 hitter!  Right before he goes out and throws 100 MPH in the 1st inning the next day)

Zoom slid his prediction for Dyson to $8.5 - $9.0 MM after the late season problems.  Personally I love Jarrod Dyson and I love having a glove specialist in the middle of the diamond, going back all the way to Little O being the glue for the Thome-Belle Indians.  Dr. D is a UZR skeptic, but he is all-in on truly magical glove specialists who play the middle.

Haniger can play CF, but he will be -runs there.  This will be interesting to watch, the CF decisions in the winter.  Makes no sense to ask the M's to add Darvish/Arrieta/Tanaka as well as Justin Upton, but here they are talking about letting Jarrod Dyson go.  You don't let a world-class CF go without SOMETHING in mind.


The M's are snake-eyed IN on Shohei Ohtani, per Johns' article.  Zoom characterizes this as an Escape New York three-legged race where tripping gets you strafed with machine-gun fire.  Clubs gotta talk fast with DATA's player agents.  (Darvish-Arrieta-Tanaka-Agents.)  While telling Ohtani Yes Sir, No Sir, What Else Can We Get You Sir.  

  • A pure DH slot after Cruz, certainly
  • A short flight back to Hokkaido, here are 8 first-class tickets
  • A city very similar in climate and terrain, with plenty of Japanese-speaking areas, done deal
  • A rabid contingent of fans inside the park, complete with Ichiro and Daimajin fans?, no doubt
  • A genteel acceptance of early hitting travails, goes without saying
  • D-A-T-A .... hm well, here's where we stand ... IF we have YOU


The M's probably on Yonder Alonso, according to John's.  For what it's worth, Alonso hit .282/.382/.483 for the M's after that first four games, with 'only' a .326 BABIP.  He wound up walking almost 70 times in a shortened season.  :: brad pitt ::  If Boomstick hits a homer, do we care whether Alonso got there by hit or walk?  :: jonah hill ::  We. do. not.

Fangraphs gives -12 runs a year for Alonso's defense; Dewan gives -6 runs.  Looks like -6 to me, FWIW.  I'd give Boomstick or Ohtani a 1B glove.  In none of these scenarios do the Mariners get more athletic, but then again the Seattle Mariners never were playing basketball.

Then again, a 23-year-old Curtis Granderson at DH, that's young and it's pretty athletic into the bargain.


So this "athleticism" buzzword.  Is that a thing?  It says here, ummmmmmmNo.


Dr D



Simply means we want a young Griffey and A-Rod?  A future Lewis/Haniger/Ohtani OF? I don't know.  If Dyson in fact signs elsewhere and the quotes about preference hold true maybe I'll consider the "athleticism" in that light.  So far we know nothing of what they will do, except in surprising us.  Dipoto will surprise us.

I do not like the idea of ditching Dyson entirely for a platoon of Hereniger.  But Dyson is probably in for starters money so putting him on the bench isn't a great plan if that holds. Younger :OR: More athletic in CF.

I've got to admit Alonso looks like a decent idea for at least next year.  Vogue is not a platoon partner for him and therefore likely trade bait if you combine adding Alonso and Ohtani to this roster.  Unless Cruz goes first but is that a good idea?  I like the idea of him playing out the contract assuming you're offering the 1 year QO and possibly taking an extra pick or if he's declining just walking away.  Right now it looks like the perfect contract, among the best FA deals in team history? 

I don't know about the deckchairs on the batting order, but it's the pitching rotation that sank this year.  Those are the additions I'm more keen on.  At least there are options.  If the money needs to go there instead of reupping Dyson, I can understand. 


Truthfully, I'm not interested in bringing him back.  We haven't much cash to spend, likely.....and I would rather it not go to him.  Sometimes you have to prioritize your dollars.  He just careered it at age 30 and I would rather not pay the inflated tag, betting on 28 more HR's in '18.  Vogs has a total of 44 MLB PA's, yet has sort of bashed AAA, two years running. 

Servais erred badly, not giving Vogs 10-11 straight starts to finish the season.  Now we're either in or out on him, before we really see what he's got. 

Not my cup of tea.

Brandon Bishop guys.  Runs like a deer, plays a glovey CF, made an adjustment at the plate then sort of tore up AA.  Keep him in mind, he may well play CF for the M's ini '18.

BTW, I'm fast tracking Evan White, too.  AA for me.


Sorry...I'm not usually one for looking at a player and forming quick opinions, but...some guys, you can look at them and know they'll never survive the rigors of a 162'game season. Vogelbach is that, from where I'm sitting. I've rarely seen a less physically gifted man in baseball, unless you count Hideki Irabu or Boomer Wells, both of whom were pitchers.

If this is my club, I'm trading his enormous carcass to Oakland.

This message brought to you by a man who, after losing significant weight, is now 'only' 315 pounds. I've earned the right to call this one as I see it.


Fat, skinny, otherwise afflicted.  I'm fat (250#, 6'2) and I have no more right to the truth than you.  I respect your opinion and hope others respect mine, even if I'm sorta overweight and employed in healthcare. Not terribly contradictory,  lol.


In MLB split between 4 callups while working on 1b don't indicate the same hitter in any way as what was acquired.  He doesn't look like the same hitter.  He's a DH, let him focus on hitting.  The A's would.  Cruz could be better at 1b. Or you'd be ruining Cruz just the same. 


Just throwing in that historically baseball has known its fair share of unathletic appearing physiques:  Boog Powell (the original), Cecil Fielder and son Prince, Kirby Puckett (muscular but not proportionally appealing), David Ortiz, Dmitri Young, John Kruk, Steve Balboni, etc. to name just a few.  Each of the aforementioned had appealing baseball skills, however, none would make the cover of Mr Universe.

Just my thoughts on the limited importance of physique related to success playing baseball.


Babe Ruth was a God among men in his day, physically, until his early to mid thirties. He was a good defensive outfielder, fast on the bases, and known as very mobile and spry.

The game was also very different then than today and the level of competition is extremely fierce now.


It can be impolite to flatly contradict a friend with that phrasing, especiallly when not needed.  Many other phrasings are at hand that are more tactful.

Gracias, Mod


I've just heard the Babe Ruth was fat claim many times...it's like the Ty Cobb is evil claim...invented by unscrupulous reporters. Ruth got down to first faster than most players in the game until he was about 29 and didn't become too slow until even later.

At any rate, it's not just the weight that bothers me...Vogelbach is horribly uncoordinated and uncomfortable looking on a baseball diamond. To the point where he looks nearly as strange to me as a position player attempting to pitch. It's hard to make a big defensive impact at first base in any direction, but I think he actually would cost the team multiple wins if you put him out there.


That you disagree with my descriptions,  appreciate your confidence and persuasiveness, keeping in mind I never met any of my fatties in-person.  I'll stay with my descriptions based on various and assorted sources.  Thanks for conceding Kruk tho.


Rarely has something I said been described as "wildly", glad it struck a chord.  I do know from extensive research Ruth was wildly out of shape most of his career due to his disdain for workouts.  What he maintained physically was God-given naturally and not because of much effort on his part. He was resented by teammates for that fact alone.  No contraditions intended, just there's rarely anything wildly true.


Boog Powell wasn't fat...he was a lumberjack. He got fat at the end of his career and flamed out as soon as that happened.

Cecil Fielder and his son were both known, at first, to be shockingly fast and skilled defensively for their size.

Kirby Puckett was a good glove center fielder...NEXTI'll give you Kruk...he was pretty much always a slob.

But you have to squint very...very hard to find unathletic major leaguers in today's game who stick. When Prince got fat, his body exploded...end of career.

And Vogelbach is among the clunkiest, least-controlled fat ballplayers I've ever seen. I thought Smoak was a clod...no...this guy makes Smoak look like a danged ballerina.


It is a good point that Ruth was a football player type.  The Yankees as we know are wearing pinstripes because they were embarrassed about Ruth's body.  That dude was very often 50 lbs. overweight compared to a "cut" athlete.

Wait!  I can see a free URL comin'!

And thanks for your candidness about your own weight Matt.  Very Zen.


And it depends on the meal being served; if it's something I'm craving it could be lights-out "righteous, man" ala High Times at Ridgemont High


And i played basketball in college.  From that experience I recall looking at opponents and deciding they were "unathletic", "uncoordinated" and/or overweight.  And almost to a person was contradicted in competition.   My only point is looks/appearance don't make the athlete an athlete.   Alot is heart.  Just my opinion. Some of the fattest, uncoordinated dudes were monsters.  Also, I may think someone is fat and you do not, doesn't mean either is right or wrong, it's my opinion.

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