Doc, this is superb stuff. You've outdone your normally brilliant self. Or maybe it is just because, as you know, you and I agree on this whole point. All the same, you've won the kewpie doll for this set of posts.
I had just posted in the Liddi thread that more and more Seager was calling to my dinosaur mind images of the Dodgers' Billy Russell (I also mentioned the Russell, Cey, Lopes template for a Liddi/Seager/Ackley IF---all coming up nearly together, etc), a mediocre-glove SS but a better than average SS with the stick during the era he played.
Then I take off for 30 minutes to sign some checks and come back to your brilliant analysis.
Right on, right on, right on!
He can play the position, and I think you've done the play-by-play analysis and ground out the data.
What sayest you about Seager being from the Russell template?
But Scutaro is a dang fine comparison.
Can we see a whole bunch of Liddi/Seager for the rest of the season and ST? I'm calling for that. Call in your chits from Z and Wedge and make it so.
And, BTW again, continuing the Dodgers comparison mentioned above, Smoak (or Carp if Smaok DH's) becomes Garvey.
Young talented IF bats all growing up together. Seemed to work out for the Dodgers, IIRC.
Moe
=== Google (TM) Full Disclosure, Dept. ===
Having watched Mr. Seager try the 6 spot a few times, I had graded him at PSA 2 -- that's the grade where my dog ate my baseball card, but here's part of one corner, I think.
We were biased against this concept, heavily so. But since I had two shiny-fresh wax pack games recorded on my TV, I sat down and deigned to grant him a re-boot. Eric Wedge mopped his brow in relief.
So, although an anti-Seager going in, the switch on the back of my skull was set to "No Preconceptions." Considering my Bruce Wayne-ian mind discipline, meant that Mr. Seager would receive an exceptionally fair clipboarding.
There, would Google would do that for yer? I think not.
=== You And Me Could Write a Baaaad Bro-Mance Dept. ===
First, for your genteel consideration, a simple description of the dozen-odd plays in his area on Sept. 20 and 21.
oans, implying that Seager is dangerously miscast at SS.
...
A few pitches later, Span swipes second. Olivo fires down, slightly SS side of the bag. Seager reaches wayyyyy out for the ball, tags back way too late.
For those who just joined us, a natural SS lets the throw travel to the bag. Your arm doesn't travel as fast as a Miguel Olivo throw does. Seager is terrible taking throws and applying tags, class-A level or lower.
...
Play 2. With a runner on second, a crisp, fungo-like 3-hopper takes Seager towards the bag.
With excellent body control and low weight all the way through, Seager absorbs the ball like an amoeba, sets his feet while glaring at the runner, and flings the runner out at first with a medium-hard throw.
Beautiful. It's an easy ball and Seager looks eager on the play, converting it fluidly and dynamically.
.
Comments
gracious words, compadre. Thanks mucho.
...
You and I well remember that 10-year infield in LA ... Russell was, compared to the other three, a relative stealth player .... a bit dubious with both glove and bat but mind-numbingly reliable...
Would hope, for Seager's sake, that Russell is the floor offensively :- ) but I do see the comparison in that Ackley-Smoak give us a franchise IF and then you have their little brother pitching in at SS...
Good stuff as always b'wana...
Doc, I did a quick look at all the NL SS's in '78, a year when the Dodgers went to the WS.
Russell had an OPS+ of 92. By today's standards that isn't much, but by the standards of the 70's he was a nice offensive SS. In fact, only one SS in the NL that year had a better number, Concepcion with 114. Bowa (go figure) had a 92, Templeton a 91, Dejesus 90, Speier 86, Tavares 83, Ozzie 82, Lemaster 79, Landestoy 72, Foli 72 and Don Cheney 61.
I suppose I should look at other years as well, but that's the way I remember Russel, asl a better than average 70's SS stick. Lemaster, Foli, Landestoy, Bowa, etc...all were wimply glove first guys. Well Ozzie (who became a pretty good offensive player, even James commented on that) and Tavares and Templeton were, too.
Heck, Freddy Patek would fit in this group.
SS's were wispy guys, often glove only. Heck, Russell slugged .365 and was better than the average SS. Comparitively, today's SS is expected to be a bat of some sort, too. In the AL, as you point out, perhaps a bat before a glove.
Still, Seager may project to be a better than average SS bat. That was why I compared him to Russell.
Russell did hit considerably better than a lot of the mosquito NL shorstops of the day...
I start to see what you're getting at amigo ...