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Very interesting discussion as to Danny Hultzen's 'new motion.'  

Fave commenter TR, who has coached pitchers, offers several meaty ideas that drive the discussionup to highways speeds, just by their sheer quality.  Thanks amigo.  He points out several things in this comment rat cheer:

• "Throwing across the body" = planting the lead foot closer to 1B (for a LHP)
• Same-handed hitters have a rougher time picking up this pitch
• This changes the release point, where the ball comes out of the hand
• There are some (controversial) issues as to what this does to the shoulder

Agree with points 1, 2, and 3, and #4 is interesting too.  And after the golfclap due, lemme kick the can down the road a bit by offering my own aiki-shtick to the stew pot ...

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Upper Body and Lower Body

It might be useful to understand "throwing across the body" by simply imagining a LHP pitcher taking a normal stride and then throwing to a spot that is behind a LH batter.  True, he releases the ball a bit later; this creates a slightly more "closed" (pinched) shoulder decel, but also a slightly more "open" (unpinched) backstroke.

Here, check out this image of Hultzen at release:

1. Is his weight on his front foot, or his back foot?   Front.
2. Is his arm in a weird position compared to his front shoulder?  No.  
3. Is he contorting himself in order to bring the arm around?  No.  You wouldn't know he HAD come around the corner, except for his hips and back foot.

Because the Center of Gravity (CG) is already out on the front foot during the throughstroke, "throwing across the body" (as such) doesn't have a ton of meaning with respect to the leverage in the upper body. Any more than if you decided to wind up, plant the foot, and throw the ball behind the hitter's back.

In fact, the picture above probably reminds you of Randy Johnson's release to some extent.  The clearance is actually excellent, much better than (say) Taijuan Walker's.

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Here, stand up and get a feel for it, yourself.  I'll wait.  Step from 6 o' clock to 12 o'clock and throw a wad of socks.  Now step from 6 o'clock to 1 o'clock, come around the corner, and aim back at 12 o' clock.  

I'll wait.  :: toe tap ::

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Notice how your back foot releases?  And your upper body takes a gliding course in either case?  The only harm you did yourself was that your eyes moved really weird.  (And that is serious damage, bro'.)

Hultzen doesn't wrench his knee -- above -- because his hips slide out to 1B before he gets into the throughstroke.  Bad for CG, bad for the eyes, but no problemo for the shoulder.

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Jay Buhner had a weird stance at the plate.  Lot of guys do.  What you want to look at, is their position as they load the bat; that looks pretty much the same from one batter to the next.  By analogy, Hultzen's throughstroke is pretty much the same as anybody else's.

Here's a gif-fed out discussion at HBT.  The author concludes:

What I noted was that Hultzen had typical ranges of kinematic parameters when comparing him to healthy and effective pitching mechanics of known populations:

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Release Points

Also, when we say "the release point may change by a full 18 inches" ... well, yeah, but that might be okay.  :- )  You can change your release point by 24" when you move from one side of the rubber to the other.  If your plant foot lands in a different spot, sure, your release point will measure out the same way.  Hultzen apparently moved his plant foot from 15" off to 1B, to coming down the CG.  Release point moves the same amount.  Sure.

The Cubans, including Elias, do this from one pitch to the next.   The Japanese, I think, have an actual rule written against doing it ...... 

A more important point for me:  Is Hultzen's arm now bent at the elbow as he releases?  That would be interesting; TR thinks maybe it has.  Let's find out in ST.  Personally I'd be purty sur-prized if that changed so much.

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Pop-a-Shot Dept.

What HAS happened, though, is that Hultzen started with his back foot toward 3B, so he did have to move his head sideways and move his CG in a circle, rather than a straight line.  His head and hips slid out to 1B, before he started the throughstroke.

In aikido this is called the tenkan step.  You use it in irimi -- the drunk throws a right hand down the centerline, you slide out to the left a foot or so, and feel the wind as he goes by.  Then, if you're not very nice, you lift your elbow a bit into his chin.  The martial version of 'coming around the corner'.

In Dr. D's pitching world :- ) this is a control and command disaster, but not much of an issue with respect to strain on the upper body.  It may even lessen strain on the body above the waist; do shot-putters stress themselves by twirling on ice skates before they throw?

But moving your head and eyes is a catastrophe for control.  It's like shooting a mini-basketball at a Pop-a-Shot.  The target is moving during your own sports motion.  ... Oddly, Hultzen had superb command.  That is, until his shoulder started going out.

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Coming around the corner as such didn't hurt Jeff Nelson, Erik Bedard, Sid Fernandez, or all the Cubans -- provided they could throw a strike that way.  ;- )

In fact, Dr. D takes it as a given that the more sidearm you throw, the safer it is.  Coming around the corner keeps you sidearm.  

Charlie Furbush does absolutely everything wrong you can do with a sports motion, but seems to have never had a moment's pain in his arm.  El Sid, a blocky little guy who should never have been a pitcher, gave the Mets like 2,000 innings with a muscled-up, ugly motion.  Randy Johnson.  etc.

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Strides, CG, and Moe Mentum

But!  Here's the thing.  Guys who throw across their body do sometimes have very short strides.  That was certainly true of Hultzen.  Compared to other pro pitchers, he generated very little momentum in his motion, especially from his lower body.  This meant he had to use a lot of muscle to generate velocity.

Here is a discussion of the short-stride issue at Hardball Times, and it's got Danny Hultzen in it.  See the .gif especially.  Hultzen's forward momentum, simply isn't.  You'll never in your life see a pitcher with feebler CG transfer.  Watch the .gif!

Unfortunately, the HBT author gets caught up in other favorite checkpoints -- his gig is to measure body part angles -- but in Dr. D's aiki-world the white meat of the chicken is the part where he catches Hultzen not engaging his CG well.  For me this is the ultimate no-no.

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So what we hear is that Hultzen is now striding toward home plate, and Dr. D's ears perk up:  Does this mean he's now accelerating his CG more smoothly?  If so, SSI signs off on this tweak with gusto.  

MoeDawg would say, careful how much you tweak.  All too true, if you're a 3-handicapper who is changing for the sake of change.  But!  Not if you are a 24-handicapper changing from doing it wrong to doing it right.  MoeDawg isn't going to hesitate about changing Dr. D's golf swing, if he's moving his head 24" and bending his right knee :- )

ANY TIME a pitching coach can help a pitcher accelerate his CG more smoothly and powerfully, then I'm right there with him on it.  Any day and twice on Sunday.

(1) Hultzen's CG transfer has been a tragedy.  (2) They say they've changed his motion, and he's throwing awesome.  That's the on-site report.  So is this (3) a negative or a positive?  Hey, the rookie Gary Payton has changed his shot and he's draining 3's like nobody's business ... am a little confused as to why this creates more worries than hurries.

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R/X and Dr's Prognosis

Hultzen had a labrum and a rotator cuff.  Yowch.  Three things about that:

• Pitchers' surgeons are getting different results these days;
• If Hultzen's chances of injury are 30-40%, that'd be no different from Taijuan's, KPax's, or Iwakuma's, and
• **** Your chances of being cured of leukemia are better after you've been cured, than before.

That was precisely what kicked off the SSI discussion, was the news that Hultzen was "throwing 90 MPH without even cutting loose."  

If Lance Armstrong gets diagnosed with a brain carcinoma, his recovery chances are X%.  But after he's treated, his PET scan is clean and his blood markers all came back to normal, that's not X% any more.  Patients who get to that point, have rather better chances of survival than those who first walk into the chemo clinic.  :- )  If Percy Harvin goes through hip labrum surgery, but then he's in training camp running 4.3 40's and everybody tells you he's zigging and zagging like he was, well, that's different.  He's been through the surgery and is performing well.  If it's 18 months from now, and Paul Richardson is in training camp running as well as ever, fine.  You put him on the roster and you go play football.

Youse guys are under-weighting the cheery value of the glowing reports on Hultzen, it sez here.  Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.  The guy had his surgery and can now throw it through a brick wall.  Somebody blow my head off.

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I remember the first car I bought ... 1974 Pinto, I think.  Being 17 years old, I got psyched up and started planning on how to trick it out.  Flame paint, cool wheels, sound system ... finally a car salesman grabbed me by the scruff of the neck.  "Put $5 grand into that car and it's still going to be a 1974 Pinto.  You're not going to change what it is."

Personally I think it's easy for us to get a little too excited about how much this or that mechanical change might create a new baseball player.  Did you ever see a swing change, create a David Ortiz out of a Dustin Ackley?  Or a mechanical change create a Gio Gonzalez out of a Lucas Leutge?  Players kinda are who they are.

The changes might lessen (or increase) a player's chance of injury a little bit.  Changes might help a pitcher gain consistent command, like they did with Paxton's reduced backstroke.  Not so often that a pitching coach makes a silk purse out of a sow's ear, or vice versa.  Or that's how Dr. D looks at it.

Once in a while, they'll Austin Bibens-Dirkx or Blake Beavan some scrub or other, and really ruin his career.  Seen it happen 2 or 3 times over the last 20 years.  Wouldn't get over-alarmed that any given rumored change is going to create such a situation, especially when the initial reports are glowing :- )

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Hultzen's odds aren't to be overestimated.  He might have three setbacks during 2015 and not be ready until 2016.  Or he might always be a Scott Bankhead.  No doubts there.

Nor are we to overestimate the odds of Taijuan.  Nor those of D.J. Petersen.  Like RockiesJeff emphasized, they're going to throttle up slowly on Hultzen, watch the workload very close.

Supposing that Danny Hultzen has only a 40% chance of ever being an impact MLB asset.  What are D.J.'s chances?  About the same.

I wouldn't give you D.J. Petersen for Danny Hultzen, right now -- Hultzen only has to become healthy, whereas Petersen has to become good.  Thass my opinion I could be wrong.

Comments thread all yers,

Dr D