Ichiro's New Swing

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Our main man Jeff Sullivan put together a couple of animated .gif's.  Good on yer, Jeffy.

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=== Wrist Hinge ===

The first thing to notice?  Imagine that you're looking straight down at home plate from outer space.  Superimpose a clock face onto Ichiro, with the 12 pointed at the pitcher and the 6 pointed at the catcher.

With Ichiro's old swing, when he pulled the bat back into his backswing .... the bat head pointed at 2:30 on this clock.  You can see it on the .gif.  It was the one and only part of Ichiro's swing that was not dynamic:  he was a golfer swinging a 6-iron, pulling it back to his knees with a stiff pair of arms.  Ichiro's wrist hinge was painful for me to watch, not only much too short, but also much too stiff.

Now look at Jeffy's .gif from Larry Stone's photos from Arizona from 2012.  You can clearly see that Ichiro's load takes the bat head to 1:00, or even 12:30, on the clock face.  This isn't an accident of that particular swing; it's integral to what Ichiro is doing.

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Ichiro used to make up for the annoyingly short backswing by taking a big flowery throughswing, giving him a "praying mantis" type Kung Fu explosion.  But as SSI noted in this article, usually in 2011 Ichiro was too lethargic to accelerate the bat and follow through, either.  The result was a pitch-shot swing.

Ichiro's new swing is not about his base.  It's about his shoulder turn.

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=== Potpourri ===

Ichiro's stance is wider.  Usually this adds quickness, making the swing shorter, and improving reaction time, especially on offspeed.  We remember Lou Piniella trying to get Bret Boone to transfer weight "from inside of thigh to inside of thigh," rather than kicking his leg.  Lou was addressing a too-long swing that got caught in between.

Make no mistake about it:  in a vacuum, Ichiro's wide stance emphasizes quickness versus load and power.

......

He's not taking his upper hand off the bat, and as a result his head is moving forward more.  That's a bad thing.  Ichiro is using a swing that he has not used all his life.  The problems with that are not to be understated.  It's more than possible that he'll have to abandon the swing.

But!  The bottom line is Ichiro's eyes, brain, and hand-eye coordination.  He's always been able to swing about five different ways, two of which involve moving his head as he runs down the line...

.............

Ichiro has transferred the responsibility from his lower body to his upper body.  He used to have a golf swing, and a golf swing is a leg swing.  Now he's got the swing used by .... wait for it .... Dustin Ackley.

Ackley loads his bat and reads the pitch, but he doesn't have to worry about timing his front leg.  It's all centrifugal force in the shoulderline, and the vitality, the sparkle, comes from wrist snap.

Ichiro's lower body used to be so complicated that he had to take a half-backswing to make it work.  Now that his base is quiet, Ichiro can afford to wind up the bat and still hope to time the ball.

In a vacuum, the wide stance is used for quickness, but in this specific case it is a streamlining of the lower body so that the upper body can swing with bad intentions.

............

If you like Dustin Ackley, and you disliked Ichiro's 2011, you've got to like Ichiro's new swing.

BABVA,

Dr D

Comments

1

Clicked on the link immediately, before I read the rest of the article, and noticed two things you touched upon. (I didn't notice the wider stance right away)
1.  There is much more wrap of the bat.
2.  He still has lots of head movment through the hitting zone.
I suspect #2 still exists because Ichiro has spent a (incredibly productive) lifetime driving into the ball, head, shoulders and all. When he got pitches in, and when he could just explode the hips and not drive his upper body into the ball, then he creamed it. Otherwise, he (p)laced it. 
The wider stance and greater wrap will allow for greater explosion, but I'm not sure what the head movement will do to counteract that.
If Ichiro were a golfer he would have been Lee Trevino, a "wiper" of the ball with lots of movement, but one of the handful of greaest ball-strikers ever.  His new move isn't Bubba Watson, but it has moved away from Trevino, too.
If he makes it work and rebounds with ferocity we should all take it as a sign of just what an incredible talent we've had he pleasure to watch.
moe
 

2

Ichiro has transferred the responsibility from his lower body to his upper body.  He used to have a golf swing, and a golf swing is a leg swing.  Now he's got the swing used by .... wait for it .... Dustin Ackley.
Ackley loads his bat and reads the pitch, but he doesn't have to worry about timing his front leg.  It's all centrifugal force in the shoulderline, and the vitality, the sparkle, comes from wrist snap.

Funny how that happened the year after Ichiro spent time with our next HOFer and got to examine his results with a critical eye.  Phenomenal contact ability + wrist hinge + still lower body = disaster for opposing pitchers.
And he and Ackley share points of similarity that would allow Ichiro to shift his approach to Ackley's and get results.  Not something Michael Saunders could do - and kinda shows Ichiro's rubber stamp of approval on Ackley as well.
We'll see what the results are, but it's gonna be interesting to go L Ackley / L Ichiro / R Montero / S Smoak / L Carp.  Two stingers, two pounders, and a guy who swings with 9000% bad intentions and a chip on his shoulder.
I hate relying on the kids that much, but if there were kids to do it to...we've got em. And if an old man like Ichiro can still contribute in a big way and take some of the pressure off, I'd love to see it.
~G

3

Has Montero been annointed as the #4 hitter.  I haven't seen that.  I'm willing to bet, that coming out of ST, he isn't the clean-up guy.
Seems a lot to put on his plate right away.
moe

4

Take your pick.  You can't use another lefty bat after Ichiro and Ackley (or at least, most wouldn't) and those are your two power-cleanup hitter types.  I think Smoak will be #4 at the beginning, but after he ran into problems in the 4-hole last year I'm not sure how Wedge feels about it. 
We know he doesn't like putting rookies as cleanup hitters - he said as much last year.  I could see us going Smoak - Carp - Montero as our #4-5-6 hitters to keep Montero from that situation.
But it took what, 6 weeks for Smoak to take the #4 slot simply because everyone else sucked, right?  He was the 3 hitter after a month and started as the 5, so it's not like Wedge is scared of young MOTO hitters in general.  Ackley took 17 games to become the 3-hitter.
Montero might not be the 4 hitter off the bat...but we'll see how long it takes. It's up to Smoak, IMO.  He starts slow, either in ST or April, and Montero fast?  They can shuffle Smoak back to 5 pretty easily.
~G

5

There is no reasonable lineup given the current roster.  Wedge "wants" a classic lineup, and simply doesn't have the tools to match.  So, he's going to compromise six ways from Sunday and likely end up with an opening day lineup generally dispised by the masses, (but which might just be perfect in terms of "quick" identification of which bodies need to be dumped:
3B - Figgins - last hurrah - put up or shut up - no other OBP/Steal guy on the roster.
2B - Ackley - best projected hitter needs plenty of PAs.  Likely destined for #3 slot in the near future.  He's better suited to bat third than Ichiro is already, but this whole lineup is full of compromise.
RF - Ichiro - he might start here, but I doubt he'll stay here.
CA - Olivo - horror upon horror - but he led the club in HRs and he isn't a lefty.  Of course, this likely could place the three worst hitters on the ROSTER all at the top of the lineup in the ill-conceived attempt to match specific skills with "designated" top of the order "job descriptions".
1B - Smoak -- Star prospect isn't going to hit lower.
LF - Carp -- And we end up hitting the best hitter (by OPS) from 2011 6th in the lineup. 
DH - Montero/et al? -- while the great debate on whether Montero and Olivo will play in the same lineup routinely continues, you can either bench your 2011 team leader in HRs or your top prospect --- so you can plug in who, exactly -- Trayvon?  Liddi?  Seager perhaps?
CF - Guti -- his comeback will start with minimal pressure.  Accept his golden glove then see what happens with the bat.
SS - Ryan -- might swap with Guti - but Ryan has already hit 9th regularly.
This is basically what you get if you start with Figgy leading off and Ichiro hitting third.  Once you pencil in Ackley/Ichiro for 2/3, you end up with planning on three straight lefties, (Carp led the team in cleanup appearances, despite playing only 1/2 the season), or you shove Smoak where Wedge said he didn't like him, or you give the job to your entitled veteran who led the team in HRs.
This is why I keep saying, I'll believe these Ichiro/Figgy rumors are true once the season starts.  It could happen.  The only upside is that you allow Figgy, Ichi and Oli to fail quickly, while allowing your prospects to work with less pressure for awhile.
"Long" term? 
RF - Ichiro -- (assuming his bat returns enough to generate a .330 OBP).
CF - Guti - (assuming Figgy implodes and Guti returns)
2B - Ackley - (where he should be hitting from day one)
LF - Carp -- (where he should be hitting from day one)
1B - Smoak - (where he should be hitting from day one)
CA - Olivo/Montero - (relative PT will likely move throughout season)
3B - Seager - (after Figgy implodes)
DH - (you're the next contestant on Seattle's Got Talent!)
SS - Ryan
Realistically, the political heat of moving Ichiro *way* down in the order is going to prevent this from happening unless Ichiro truly stinks from day one.  Since it is far more likely that Figgy will stink from day one, and the club doesn't have anything resembling a 'true' leadoff hitter - Ichiro's SB prowess will return him to leading off in short order.
Wedge's love for aggression (and the inate weakness in total HRs on the roster), likely prevents Olivo from slipping lower than 6th in the lineup, unless he implodes. 
DH will be a revolving door - (last year 10 guys played DH - and Cust was #1 with 63 games with Carp #2 at only 19).   Pena was third at 17.  Of course, upon reading the name "Pena", my first question was "Who the heck was Pena?  I don't remember any Pena"  It was Wily Mo, just fyi.  You could win the America's Cup with the breeze from the revolving door that DH will likely be in 2012.
 

6

watching the vids, I predict the following:
Ichiro looks to have incorporated the same kind of things that Jeter does to fight off the inside pitch. We all know they've been pounding him inside the last few seasons, and that Ichiro has not seemed to adjust well. If you look at the vids, he looks like he will now be able to start his swing dropping his hands vertically before bringing the bat head through, rather than windmilling through. Like Jeter from the other side, this should allow him to keep his hands near his body and get the head solidly on the inside pitch.
The first guy that tries to pound him inside like last year with a mediocre fastball navel high is going to watch it go to section 108.
Ichiro looks like he will not have as much control of the bat head impact angle as he has had. Instead of meeting the ball at a precise angle and puching it through the hole on the ground, or a lofted line drive over a infielder's head, the ball will get more energy from his bat, but the angle will be less precise.
Hard fast balls outside are going to be sharply lined - if Verlander-class, fouled sharply down the 3rd base line (Datz be nimble, Datz be quick...), otherwise, there will be quite a few one-hopped off the left field wall while slicing toward the line.
Ichiro's new swing is more conventional, as many have noted. This means he will have more vulnerability to high-inside, low-outside patterns. If his bat speed remains good (and the vids are encouraging) this shouldn't be as much of a problem as it is to "normal" hitters. Ichiro's incredible eye-hand coordination will help the adjustments he needs to make - perhaps better from this swing than from his old one, which was optimized to meet the ball anywhere somewhat away from his body, but with little additional energy added from the swing. Now he should add the energy.
When the first few months of batted ball departure speeds are posted, Ichiro will show a significant increase. However, his average may be down, and his OBP (which is partially a function of patience) will continue to be ~.040 above his BA, as nothing in the swing change will make him less aggressive.  But, with the increased batted ball velocity, and a few men on base to give him holes, he will produce.

7
IcebreakerX's picture

I knew I'd seen the swing somewhere...!

8
OBF's picture

Mike Carp, is actually the leader in the clubhouse right nwo to bat clean up!  Think about it.  Eric Wedge spent all year last year search for a clean up hitter (seems like eveyone he put there swooned under the lineup position glare).  Hitter after hitter spit the clean up position bit, that is until Mike Carp steped in!
So if I was Eric Wedge, all offseason I have had Carp penciled in as my #4 guy.  Also in terms of the Left righty arguements I would say that both Ackley and Ichiro can be viewed as essentially switch hitters, not because they actually switch of course, but because they are just that good of hitters.  Neither has much of a platoon dip and both have the HIT skill dialled to 11 :)
So that gives us:
 
#1 Figgens -- SW
#2 Ackley -- SW :)
#3 Ichiro -- SW :)
#4 Carp -- LH
#5 Smoak -- SW
#6 Jesus -- RH
#7 Guti -- RH
#8 Ryan -- RH 
#9 Wells -- RH
 
 

9

I admire Ichiro for what he's doing -- and obviously this is something that he's been working on all offseason long, so it's not like a brand new thing.  But count me among those who are a bit skeptical as to whether or not this is actually going to work.
Think about it.  Over the course of his 20 year long career (Japanese leagues and MLB) ... and all the years prior to that (minor leagues, little league, etc.) Ichiro has logged thousands upon thousands of hours ... doing things the exact same way ... repeating and perfecting his swing over and over and over again. 
To me, the issue is about muscle memory.  We talk about it all the time in athletics -- it's much easier to teach "good habits" early on ... than it is to correct bad habits later on.  That's not to say that what Ichiro is doing is a "bad thing" ... it's just to acknowledge how very hard it is to make those adjustments once patterns get set in place.  In the NFL, people talk about what it would take to change Tim Tebow's mechanics and most agree that it will take several years, as he has learned to do things a certain way.  We talked about swing changes in relation to Michael Saunders and just how hard that process is going to be for him ... and he's only 25 years old -- not 38 like Ichiro. 
Monkeying around with mechanics CAN potentially be a dangerous thing for an athlete.  THE prime example of that ... is Tiger Woods.
As all of you know, Tiger Woods WAS the most dominant golfer on the face of planet for many years.  There was Tiger ... and there was everyone else.  But due to a series of events and failures ... Tiger decided to adjust his swing.  He made adjustments again ... and then again.
Tiger Woods made so many adjustments in his swing ... that he forgot who he was and what made him successful in the first place.  In the process he has watched his status go from the #1 Ranked player in all the world ... clear down to the #20 Ranked player.  In combination with his physical issues and all the personal chaos in his life that has weighed him down ... those swing changes really messed with him. 
Interestingly enough, his 4th swing change and his latest  ... is (according to Tiger) a return to OLD swing and the things that he used to do with his dad ...
"I went back to all of my old stuff that my dad and I used to work on," Woods said. "And that's when I felt that my stroke started becoming more sound, more solid, my speed became better. I don't know what that dude saw in my game, but he really knew putting and he knew my stroke. My dad really knew my stroke."
http://sports.espn.go.com/golf/news/story?id=6251973
So in terms of Ichiro and the adjustments he's making, it's possible that this might work because (I mean after all) he is Ichiro.  BUT, we've also got to acknowledge that attempting to change the leopard's spots has an equal potential to be an exercise in frustration.  We might be able to spread bleach on those spots and get rid of them for awhile --- but over time, my guess is that those spots will re-appear once again because that's just who he is.  Just ask the fox who allowed the scorpion to crawl on his back in order to cross the stream.
MA

10

I remember Edgar reinventing his swing every 2-3 years, it seemed. Boone reinvented his swing to get more power.

11
ghost's picture

Sorry Sandy...I wanted to go with you on this one...but there absolutely zero chance that Olivo hits 4th. :) The Mariners hit him fourth a bit last year because they had no better options while Smoak was struggling to deal with the pressure of cleaning up. There is no chance that Olivo hits there...I don't think Wedge is that obsessed with lefty/right swapping and I really don't think he'd bury Carp that far down in the order after his solid performance in the #4 spot last year.
The most likely line-up, IMHO, is:
3B) Figgins
2B) Ackley
RF) Ichiro!
LF) Carp
1B) Smoak
DH) Montero
C) Olivo
CF) Gutierrez
SS) Ryan/Kawaski (I put Kawasaki in there because Ryan can't throw from short yet due to the same injuries that killed his season last year...I think he's going to wind up on the DL for about 2/3 of the season and we're going to see a lot of Kawasaki)
And when pitchers try to go match-up bashing against that unbalanced line-up we have Wells (RH thumper to platoon with Carp but in starts and against LOOGY types in close games), Jaso (lefty slap hitter to sub in for Olivo against power righties close and late), Guillen (switch hitting swiss army knife for all occasions) and the other shortstop (Kawasaki is lefty...Ryan is righty...ain't that grand)
So no...I don't think we're going to be running a line-up that discombobulated on opening day or any other day.

12

Tony LaRussa used to do things like that to make his hitters better .... bat a questionable Dave Henderson #2 behind Rickey because Dave was a fastball hitter; bat McGwire #6 because he liked the idea of "two cleanup hitters," etc...
Not sure I'd bat Olivo #4 in this lineup :- ) .... but if we honestly believe that order doesn't matter much (and I do) ... it's interesting to ask, "Is there any way in which the hitters can make one another better?"

13

In the NBA, if Blake Griffin looks over at Dirk Nowitzki and sees a cool fadeaway with the front knee clearing space, he'll go, "Aha!  I can do that!" and he'll just poach it for his own game.  Why not?
..........
Ichiro, finally at long last, sees a Mariner teammate do something better than he does.  And Ichiro goes, "Aha!  That's what I'll do!"
This is a pretty radical form of it, though.  Ichiro has always been lower-body and now he sees this beautiful upper-body swing and goes, "okaaaayyyyyyy."  
Considering he's Elvis Presley, it's pretty commendable that he decides to sing like Adele.

15

And am sure we all share it.
One thing in favor - the bigtime athletes I've been around, they'll all tell you that they can reinvent their mechanics without much problem.  
A D-1 point guard told me once, when I spend a month redoing my shot, I can't even REMEMBER how I used to do it.

16
ghost's picture

And that's not why Sandy had the line-up the way he did.
There's no way that Olivo #4 would help Ichiro and there's no way that Ichiro would help Olivo. Olivo swings too much to make use of Ichiro's running game, and Olivo #4 means Ichiro's getting IBB'd every time there are two outs and runners on. Those styles do not mesh at all.
You need a guy who can hit for XB power and also control the bat enough and take enough pitches to use Ichiro's speed AND drive in the multiple rtunners that could be on base when Ichiro does get pitched around, thereby forcing them not to pitch around him too much. That guy is either Carp, Montero or Smoak. Period.
I agree...it's good to consider alternatives to conventional wisdom...but Sandy appeared to be saying "well we need a right handed power hitter #4 and Montero isn't ready for that job yet...so...guess it's Olivo"...not "Olivo helps the other guys in X/Y/Z ways" - L/R/L alternation matters far less than people seem to think.

17

Baker has a couple of dozen swings on video.  Watch for the bat wrap and see what you think.
The last few swings it's better, and he hits George Brett drives out to RF.

18
benihana's picture

 
Do you really think Tiger's downfall was his mechanical changes? And not the back-to-back major knee surgeries? And not the infidelity, the battle with "sex-addiction" and the very public and very ugly divorce? I'd absolutely coach Tiger to go back to his original swing, because anybody going through that much personal trauma needs to return to the basics.
To my knowledge, Ichiro's got none of that off-field stuff.
Ichiro's a technician who not only has used many different swings over the years, he often seems to use different swings during the same at bat.  Certainly some fans will remember this change: http://www.seattlepi.com/sports/baseball/article/New-batting-stance-prov... - which was widely connected to a dramatic improvement in his performance.
Last year he had a BABIP 56 points below his career norm. Second lowest BABIP? 2005. What did he do then? Oh, just changed his swing is all. 
Old dog new trick? Nope, old dog, same old trick.
- Ben.

19

He intends to hit the ball harder.
What we SURMISE is, that Ichiro (accurately) diagnosed a 2011 problem of having less zing in his swing, and that he came up with a sophisticated plan to remedy it.  As Ben points out, there is nothing new about Virtuoso Ichiro managing his swing to his own liking.
That sounds cool, but what is for sure is that he has re-tooled so that he can drive the ball more.  And all of his BP swings today were sending the ball to straightaway RF or down the line.

20

For 10 years straight, Ichiro beat the spread by a large margin.  Every doubter, starting with Mike "He'll run himself to .270" Hargrove was crushed by a large margin.  Last year was the only year where Ichiro didn't play exactly as well as he wanted to, and now the old doubters are coming in force.
 Now, I know that Ichiro will eventually get old and die, but if I were to pick one turnaround story, and bet a mortgage payment on it, and I had to choose between:
Ichiro fixing his swing
Figgins happy again
Gutierrez fixed his problems
Smoak's stronger
I wouldn't even take five to think it over.  If Ichiro says he fixed his swing, its because he did.  Now that his whole "I'm better than Ty Cobb and Pete Rose" thing is over, we can put the shades on, and get ready for Ichi-Bash.
I think that all of the anti-Ichiro prejudice is merely a reflection of distaste for wierdness.  Who is wierder than Ichiro?  He wears Zebra striped stretchy pants in public, when he knows he will be on TV.  He speaks good English but never does.  He conducts bizarre rituals with his bats, which include tuning them, and placing them in a traveling Humidor  (He throws out the bats that do not resonate on his tuner).  Rumor has it that the Mariners had to drill a batsize hole in the dugout bench to accomodate Ichiro, who apparently wanted to have it on hand in case he needed it.
On top of that, you have the interviews, where Ichiro can give a lengthy monologue, and not say a single thing that is understood by anyone.
On top of that, what is Ichiro's mood?  We've seen him smile before, but has he ever been angry, sad, excited, dissapointed?  He seems to lack the full range of human emotion.
The only hypothesis that covers all of the facts, is that Ichiro is an alien robot.  This is probably why you shouldn't worry about age arcs and such.
 

21

The intent is also clearly to hit the inside pitch, which has been his weakness for a while. The batting practice shots for today show him clearly dropping his hands and taking the ball to right.
The other major thing is he is not just meeting the ball - he's adding pace, more like he did early in his time here. I agree with those who say that he had gotten so obsessed with hits, which he could get by placing the ball, that he had MUCH less power, because his swing was no longer snapping through the ball.

22
Taro's picture

Ichiro himself went through this. He was constantly adjusting his swing until he found the perfect swing in the middle of 2004. After reviewing the video he realized that this was the same swing he had in grade school.
Bio-analysis of the swing revealed that swing gave Ichiro more reaction time and his head movement was significantly less than even elite batters such as Barry Bonds and ARod.
Ichiro hit well over .400 for the rest of year after the adjustment and has strangely abandoned it ever since.
 

23

And what I wouldn't give for a Taro interview of Ichiro... nobody ever asks him about these kinds of things...

24

Without any question, Ichiro had developed a problem there ... earlier in his career he "punished" jam pitches by stepping to 1B and hitting easy HR's into the RF bleachers...
Later on, it seemed that he was out-of-synch as far as punishing the hard inside belt-high FB...
What do you suppose happened in 2010-11, Bat?

25

I agree with those that postulate that he became obsessed with hits and more and more concentrated on using the bat to place the ball, either on the ground in the holes, or as soft line drives directly over the infielder's heads. I believe a spray chart may show more clustering of hit locations.
To do this, Ichiro has been starting his swing without a real trigger, but swinging with loose arms and tight wrists to a location with a controlled bat angle. The Jeter-type swing with loose wrists cocked is closer to what he did when he first came over.
You're right that he used to "step in the bucket" to open up for inside pitches and smack them. I'm not sure, but it looks like he changed his foot placement (wider apart) so that it became harder to step towards first with a "quiet" head.
To reach the inside pitch with no stride, as in his latest stance ( and Jeter's "classic" stance), one has to be able to start the swing of the body while dropping the cocked hands vertically. To me, this is the big change. Rather the having the bat firmly controlled by the wrists, he is now losing that control in order to regain wrist load and snap, which in turn means he can keep his hands closer to the body for longer without losing control of the bat head prior to bringing it into the hitting zone.
As I predicted in another comment, this will make it harder for him to catch up to hard outside pitches, and when he does, they will have significant slice. His coordination will allow him to hit them, but his swing angle will no longer be as controlled; therefore he will likely meet the ball with his hands slightly in front of the bat head

26
ghost's picture

That last line "Ichiro is an alien robot" made me die.  Seriously...hilarious.
He must be one of the aliens the Men In Black look after. :)

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