That's kind of how I was seeing it, though you covered a lot more than I had thought of.
I don't think the nostalgia moves are disproportionate to other organizations aside from there being less to be nostalgic about. More of the Mariners nostalgia is from only a handful of years and players so it seems more than other teams do but I don't think it is.
"I notice that everybody is very skeptical of the M's. This syndrome may be a bit overboard."
That was refreshing to read. It is hard to find positivity about any move the Mariners make. He further says that the front office has lost the faith of the fans, which could be problematic. (paraphrasing as well). The only way to get it back Is winning. The focus I often see on any move seems like the question began with "how is this move wrong?" Instead of looking at both sides to determine whether it is. The Mariners, while they may have made bad moves in the past, are not responsible for this entirely unscientific process. The people who pre-determine that any moves made by the M's must be bad are responsible for thinking that way. Pros and cons should always have a place in reviewing anything, to ignore either is faulty logic.
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I/O: Jeff Sullivan, again, serves as the voice of temperance on the Lou Piniella rumors.
CRUNCH: What Sully said was this:
- We don't have the facts on what really happened
- Probably, the Mariners gave Piniella an innocuous call, and Lou gave an innocuous No Thank You
- People accuse the M's of being trapped in the past, and of being desperate - whoa ho there mateys
- I notice that everybody is very skeptical of the M's. This syndrome may be a bit overboard.
Like we sez. The voice of reason.
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CRUNCH: the SSI talking points here are...
1. Short-term managers do have their plusses. Billy Martin managed the Yankees five (5) different times. Jack McKeon, age 72, took a loser and won the World Series in a mid-season takeover.
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2. Those aren't isolated incidents. In baseball, Cinderella seasons usually happen after a managerial change.
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3. I'd like to have Lou in, to teach the kids a winner's mindset, and then powerflush him. He could groom a longterm replacement.
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4. Some ballclubs need to bring a manager in to choose talent. That's not the situation here, really. We've got pedigreed players. Their problem is -- it really is -- underperformance. Our big failing is precisely Lou's specialty.
I thoroughly enjoy Lou, enjoy his lack of baloney, enjoy his manliness. I enjoy watching Marshawn Lynch bully into the end zone and then face-bump the defense end who mauled him. I enjoy watching hometown athletes who aren't wussies.
But that bias is not affecting the logic of this analysis.
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5. Lincoln and Armstrong have always been notorious for their love of "bringback" moves, moves that exploit nostalgia. Dan Wilson's in the press box, Ken Griffey Jr. was on the ballclub, Omar Vizquel was a nearly-accomplished trade maneuver, you've got an Edgar's Cantina sign that dominates left field, Joey Cora is a current managerial candidate ... you could list a ton of things but we'll leave it at that. The M's are wayyyyy into nostalgia hires, which they see as very appealing to Soccer Mom.
I'm quite sure that a Lou Piniella hire, the idea of it, would have all kinds of traction with Chuck Armstrong.
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6. The Seattle Mariners brass ::coughlincolnarmstrongcough:: are too proud to "recruit" Lou. That is Dr. D's main add to this discussion. We could have Lou in here, and he could turn this thing around very likely, but it won't happen. Because of the ego here.
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7. I don't see how the Seattle Mariners' brass is entitled to ego. I mean it in a good way.
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Personally, I'd love to see them swallow their pride for once, and go talk Lou Piniella into ---> one last season in the sun.
Lou would love Taijuan, and K-Pax, and Mike Zunino. Those are kids who take the fight to the enemy. Lou would absolutely love Brad Miller. He'd love Nick Franklin. The 2014 season might be a lot of fun with Lou here.
Corporate recruiting isn't hard; it just requires acceptance of the fact that you need the recruit more than he needs you. You invite Lou up just for a look around, as an honored guest, and you chat over lunch, and things go from there. But that's not the corporate culture. It's a privilege to manage the Seattle Mariners, you understand.
Be Afraid,
Dr D
Comments
After a long and disappointing season for the M's, and the playoffs not even close to being finished, optimism is creeping into my psyche. Maybe it's not baseball that's funny, but me. Hopeless, helpless optimist in the offseason I can't wait for the moves, potential moves and wild and crazy rumors to start up.
My thought on Lou is that they actually wanted him to come for one year to coach the team. I am still of the belief that the team will be sold and that is what is driving all of their decisions. Piniella would of been the perfect one year stop gap if the team is up for sale.
Might not be feasible but the teams budget should be around $110 million with the national contract ($26 million). I know other teams will get the same amount but other teams haven't been sandbagging their payroll.
According to Divish, they contacted Lou because the intend to induct him into the Ms HOF next year. There are some logistics to that. Lou himself brought the subject of the vacant managers position up and he was asked if he was really interested. He told them that he needed to think about it, got back to them a day later and said no.
Could they put a full court press on him and get him to reconsider? Maybe. But it sure doesn't feel like anything more than a courtesy to me at this point.
Wishhiker... you are right on target, and so is Doc with this comment.
I think there are a lot of us who feel very frustrated by the constant negativity and negative spin on anything Mariners that virtually every story on the Mariners has since the end of the season.
Yes, this season sucked, and we all wanted better results and a very different finish to the season... I get it. We all get it. Can we get past that now PLEASE!!!
Decisions have been made to move forward with a similar plan as last year... right or wrong, the decision has been made... and no one is going to change this decision.
I know mourning takes a while, but come on - PLEASE move to the acceptance and trying to solve the next problem.
They seem to constantly have ex-players in the public eye, in the broadcast booth, bench coaching, etc etc ... the only reason the M's moves seem so odd is because it's so awkward for them to scrape the mayo jar, I guess...
Great point Wish...
Although if the M's are to be sold, it won't be at Howard Lincoln's initiative. He is heavily invested in the status quo.
Whether the Chris Larson types want to cash out, that's always an interesting question... it is absolutely true that they have made a lot of moves *consistent with* prep for a sale...
... except that it's not clear to me why Lou wouldn't want another season or two in the sun. Something about that sounds odd.
Sure, you get fed up with the headaches, but then you get tanned, rested, and ready, and get the itch...
When a basketball, football or baseball team has taken this many lumps, it's not hard to find a fanbase that is bashing the front office 24/7... what *is* kind of unique is the flavor of intellectual scorn served up by the blogs, the contemptuous looking down the nose, which has long since worn out its welcome with Dr. D...
Anybody who prefers to ENJOY their sports, well, the 2014 Mariners offer plenty of legit reason for hope. Starting with two flamethrowing rookies, one right and one left...
If I wanted constant negativity, I could go to the big blogs.
Getting negative stories from Geoff and Stone as they head out the door, as well as almost every commenter for their stories... plus basically every other site from Divish to Drayer getting hammered for even hinting anything positive about the front office... this is just too much.
I am not writing here to try to force everyone to be bright and cheery about the Mariners future, because hey... I did not get the nickname of Tacoma Rain because I am an eternal optimist... complain when you want - just try to include in your thoughts that day of 70 degrees and sun that happens every February.