Pronator Teres - Prognosis on Felix

=== Dr's Prescription Dept. ===

Obviously Felix could tire out his Pronator Teres again -- IF he started snapping them off to produce the tailing action he got in early 2007.

Matthew's charts at LL suggest, to me, that he was getting a little more of this tailing action in 2008. Obviously, if Felix could find a happy medium here -- if he could find a way to snap his hand over the ball at release that did not over-fatigue his forearm -- that would fix everything.

The Mariners, and we, would love to see Felix "finish" his fastballs as in early 2007, yet without over-taxing the forearm.

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Earlier, we were asked: If Dr. D were the M's pitching coach, what would be the pronator "fix" alternatives, and which one would he recommend?

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Possible ways to achieve this goal:

Q1. Change his release at the end? If you teach him to not turn his FB over the top so much, it might not provide so much load on his PT muscle. Snap it off, but not quite so far. Felix was pumped up for the Boston game. He got carried away.

Try the same thing with a bit less gusto. Snap the thumb around late, but only do it over to 5 o'clock, rather than to 4 o'clock. Use exactly that description of the motion.

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Q2. Change his motion at the beginning? The authors' article (linked in the above article) puts forth the theory that if you show the ball to the CF earlier or later, it smooths out the cooperation of the muscles.

It's worth a try. But it just shows you what a complicated mechanism a pitcher's motion is...

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Q3. Change where he locates his FB? IMHO, it is high fastballs, thrown to the right side of the plate, that have the most screwball action.

He might work on this location in bullpen sessions, to find the right feel

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Q4. Decrease his workload generally? The James/Wright theory is that it is the last two pushups that thrash your muscles. And that injuries aren't from chronic overuse (gradual wear and tear), but rather from a single catastrophic event when you are tired.

Get Felix out of there earlier, that's one possible approach. Have him skip a turn in the rotation once in a while. Hm.

I don't like it, but it's listed for completeness.

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Q5. Have him throw fewer fastballs, and more curves and sliders? Immediately fans started worrying, after early 2007, that Felix shouldn't throw the slider. But as we've seen, the Pronator Teres doesn't tire from turning your thumb out (as you do on a slider). It is Felix' FB, and maybe his change, that tires out the pronator.

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Q6. Just let him pitch through it?

Not as crazy as it sounds. The Pronator Teres is not going to rip in half. Guys get sore arms. Here, your idea is that the muscle just needs to build strength.

As if you had a sore tricep from behind-the-neck curls. You wouldn't get radical; you'd just build up the muscle.

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Edit to add Q7. Remove the slider?

Billy1 made several interesting points, cheerfully concedes that he's not sure why Felix is hurt, but he would opt for having Felix throw no sliders.

No doubt that in theory, the slider is generally tougher on the elbow (whereas the curve is supposed to be tougher on the shoulder).

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=== Dr's Recommendation, Dept. ===

A1. Don't turn the ball quite as much? Ding ding. This might not necessarily be as complicated as it sounds. It could easily be (probably is) the case that Felix is consciously applying pressure with the inside of his index finger. It could easily be that all he has to do, is to stop pulling down the window shade with the side of his index, for example.

A2. Overhaul his backstroke? Yeah, I can't see that one backfiring, can you? Call me next offseason. Maybe. Don't call me, we'll call you.

No disrespect to Dr. Marshall (and Will Carroll & co.). Their advice is good and sound, but if it's my player, I'm not re-doing his backstroke in the middle of a season. Not unless it's life and death, which here it isn't.

A3. Avoid jam pitches? Might, probably would, help. At the cost of making him a worse pitcher. Felix wants to be able to jam righties, I would think.

A4. Lower his pitch count? He's already at a 100-110 pitch max now. You can reduce him to 90 if you want. Sigh.

A5. Throw fewer fastballs? Ding ding ding! Felix threw like 70%, 80% fastballs in the Boston game. In my humble opinion, this is the nature of the problem: he is throwing the fastball too much.

This would have the very pleasant side effect of making him a better pitcher, and making him a better pitcher.

A6. Don't sweat it too much? Ding ding. When it gets to hurting, throw four-seamers and stop swerving it.

Edit to add A7. No sliders? I would be concerned whether this is one-size-fits-all type coaching, since the specific health risk with a slider is wear on the UCL. Felix has virtually the opposite problem.

OTOH, Billy1's point about the slider leading to a deterioration in the curve and change … would agree that's something to watch. What Billy1 is pointing out, is that it is trickier to throw a curve and change. e.g., a curve is traveling slowly and therefore tends to less break. (Can YOU make a 50-mph throw curve in midair? Thought not.) So, you either snap off every single curve with real tight spin, or it hangs and gets blasted. It's also (by consensus) tougher to control.

A slider (or cutter, which is sort of halfway between a slider and sinking fastball) can indeed be regarded as a "lazy" pitch, compared to a 12-6 curve. You could lose the feel on your curve by prioritizing a slider.

All in all, if it's me, I don't take away his slider any more than I take away David Cone's slider, and for the same reasons. …there isn't much reason for me to believe that the slider is a health risk for Felix, any more than his screwball heater.

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First thing I would do, is consult with Felix about what kind of "reverse cutter" finger pressure he is using to throw the fastball. That's info that would affect the game plan. But not much, since you want his FB moving in any case.

What I would do, is I would have him throw 50 fastballs a game instead of 70. And I'd keep an eye on the forearm, have him be aware of it, back off when it started to feel tired. And I'd continue to keep him from pitching when he's tired.

I also would NOT overreact. You get tired when you work out.

The pronator muscle doesn't sound like a big deal to me. I would get him back to doing that, and cut his FB %, and work on the right amount to turn the ball over, have him back off it when it gets to bothering him.

My $0.02,

Dr D

Comments

1
Taro's picture

GREAT, great article. The originial thread on DOV is what got me interested in pitching mechanics in the first place.
I'd agree with #6 and just stop overusing the fastball in general.
I'm no expert (I've only studied a little A&P), but the pronator teres isn't going you stop you from pitching unless you really overdo it. Just work it out, and lay back when its sore. It seems like a logical solution.

2

Right. It seems like it would take something really weird to actually rip a forearm muscle just by throwing a ball... and it's not like we've heard a lot about forearm surgeries...
Would like to see Felix get back to turning the ball over with the 'elan that he did in early 2007...

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