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Quiet Rivers Run Deep

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jemanji's picture
Submitted by jemanji on

Provocative post as usual bro'.  (And thanks for the flowers!)

And then there's the "star" problem.  Every team HAS the "naturally gifted athlete".  He's the best in every sport - pitches in baseball - slugs .800 -- is the starting QB.  HE has the perfect swing - but he doesn't KNOW anything about how he got it.  Yet, this is the guy that the most time will be spent on.  HE gets all the "instruction", (a good portion likely detrimental, until he gets significantly higher on the learning totem).

There's a reason that 34th round draft picks ROUTINELY succeed in baseball, and almost never do in any other sport.  It's because the teaching methods in every other sport are about 1000 years ahead of baseball.  Okay -- in the past decade or two, the birth of the instructional video tape has likely improved the baseball landscape dramatically - (upgrading from Baltic to Mediteranean).

For some reason, I'd never connected these two variables:  (1) the fact that the draft is such a crapshoot and (2) the, ahem, non-standardized coaching at the ammy level.

That just may be the explanation.  I wonder if your theory has ever been proposed anywhere else.

Taro's picture
Submitted by Taro on

Gotta agree with Sandy. We're seeing this happen already.

Andres Torres was AAA fringe 30 year old player with a ton of physical talent and a linear swing.

Two years later hes the best OF in the NL thanks to completely re-tooling his swing. Chris O' Leary coached him.. The same guy who coined the "inverted W".

SABR Matt's picture

...but yes...Torres is an interesting story.

I think the Mariners are going to have more Kevin Rivers stories and less Jose Lopez stories as long as Zduriencik's development program is in operation.  Some of them will get all the way to the show...some of them will just make our farm teams more competitive and teach the real prospects about how to win before they get here (and may even be trade fodder that gets us talent we need)...but I do think the massive increase in farm depth can be credited to Zduriencik's choice of coaches and talent evaluators.

John's picture
Submitted by John on

I do agree with comments above.  The schools are littered with coach/teachers that are just in for another check when qualified coaches cannot get in the door.  Guys like Franklin,Ackley,Seager learned from ther dads how to play the game.  As a parent, I know that coaches will move on to the next player instead of teaching the current player.  The problem is the score board at an early age. 

Winning is over rated in youth sports..  You learn more from losing and failure, trial and error is the only way to improve.  How many people were ready to dump Ackley his 1st month of the season.  He had to make adjustments and he has made them, but too many were quick to dump on him.  It is the same with coaches. 

 

John

Sandy's picture
Submitted by Sandy on

IMO, baseball, more than any other sport suffers from too much in-breeding.  The "stock" understanding of "the right way" to do things has been allowed to continue for nearly a century with the general reaction to non-traditionalists being one ranging from scorn and derision to simply ignoring them.

When reading "Ball Four", the state of things at the HIGHEST level of the game as recently as 1969 was laughable.

Before the 90s, the groupthink was "no weight work for baseball players".

Even to this day, there are organizations in MLB who STILL don't believe in the value of the number crunching, and either don't understand the value of a Bill James - or even if they go through the motions to have some geeks-on-call, they're loathe to act on any data that may run contrary to their ingrained belief systems.

How many "analysts", who *ARE* getting paid 6 figure salaries on national telecasts are pretty obviously complete idiots in regards to all number of things?  These are THE CREAM of the entire baseball crop.  You compare the NFL analysis from Madden or Boomer or any number of ex-NFL players or coaches -- and they "break down the tape" - and offer real insight into things completely invisible to the average fan.  Much of the baseball analysis remains stuck only slightly more in depth than "choke up on the bat".

So, what happens is you have schools of coaches teaching players the same stuff that was taught back in 1939 ... and those kids go back to coach high school baseball, perpetuating the cycle.

Michael Jordan couldn't learn to hit a baseball decently.  It's far less about athletic ability than it is about figuring out the precise combination of factors that optimize this ONE person. 

But baseball "purists" are the most dogmatic crowd out there - fighting tooth and nail to prevent anything remotely resembling scientific progress - and this reality filters down to the grass roots. 

Only after nearly killing itself with the strike years has baseball opened to the idea of actually attempting to better leverage their product.  But, even that movement was overwhelmed with the quick and easy results offered through better pharmacy.  And, of course, chemicals are science - and science is bad for the game - so even today, much of baseball believes in "moving forward to the 1950s!"

 

RockiesJeff's picture
Submitted by RockiesJeff on

Good points John. I have coached several competitive teams and finally HS this year. There are some great guys out there coaching but too many who are arrogant and self-serving. Few really know how to teach but are great at demanding. The John Woodens are almost extinct. I am grateful to work with some of the good guys.

Taro's picture
Submitted by Taro on

Torres leads the NL OFs in WAR.

He was a track star turned ballplayer and now that he can hit well his value has boosted tremendously.

Hes what you'd have if you combined Guti's glove with Ibanez's bat.

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