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Invisible Benefits of Defense

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Taro's picture
Submitted by Taro on

I think Sandy has mentioned this a few times.

Either way, its a great find. Its was right under our noses, and yet we were never really fully aware of it. At least I wasn't..

Great stuff.

moe's picture
Submitted by moe on

IIRC, "Moneyball' talks about the great value of guys who take a bunch of pitches, even if they don't walk, is that it gets you into the other team's pen more quickly.

Same concept, but in reverse of this.

Don't make errors, your starters get another 1/2 inning...with some less game stress. The other guy then doesn't get to beat up on you LR.

Don't swing at the slider down and away and you get to the other teams pen more quickly and then you get to beat up on the other teams LR.

When it comes to starting pitching, mid-game attrition is a big deal.

Keith

jemanji's picture
Submitted by jemanji on

You're lightin' it up Keith.

Right, this is ages-old baseball lore, work the pitcher, wear him down ... but once again, it's instructive to note that the game impact of this is not captured by OBP or RAR.

You work the guy for a 11-pitch walk, great, but we haven't yet credited the guy for the fact that now we're going to see their #11 pitcher today.

jemanji's picture
Submitted by jemanji on

You're lightin' it up Keith.

Right, this is ages-old baseball lore, work the pitcher, wear him down ... but once again, it's instructive to note that the game impact of this is not captured by OBP or RAR.

You work the guy for a 11-pitch walk, great, but we haven't yet credited the guy for the fact that now we're going to see their #11 pitcher today.

..................

Not saying it can't be captured in *other* ways -- correlating BB with wins, for example. But I believe it is *very* important to understand that WAR is an approximation of, not a nearly-precise measurement of, a player's effect on a ballgame.

glmuskie's picture
Submitted by glmuskie on

And similar to the concept David Locke clamped on to with a death grip during the M's 2001 season, 'stealing outs'... Where defensive plays that would normally go for a man on base instead become a putout, effectively making it so one team is playing the game with, say, 24 outs instead of 27...

But the Gennaro analysis is more descriptive and quantified, and more concrete.

Anyway you slice it, you are right Doc, this is something not captured by the stats yet intuitive to baseball guys. Quantifying it as Gennaro has kind of serves the same purpose as OBP. It attaches a concrete amount to what is previously known only intuitively, to the point where you realize it is probably even more important than was previously thought. Definitely helps deepen our understanding of how the moving parts work together.

jemanji's picture
Submitted by jemanji on

That's a good word, deepen understanding.

I feel like a string of light bulbs went on there :- ) learning that DER impacts the game in that proportion -- #3 vs #13 team equals 10% more-or-less mileage from your starting pitcher. That is MASSive.

Grumpy's picture
Submitted by Grumpy on

I love defense, but don't be too shook up from that body blow... high OBP players do the opposite to the other team, reducing outs and wearing out their SP.

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