Game #162 - the M's BillyBall Season | Seattle Sports Insider

=== Griffey's Return in 2010 ===

For those who just joined us: D-O-V is not recommending (or arguing against) the 2010 incarnation of Mr. Griffey. But since cyber-Seattle takes it as a foregone conclusion that he's not (or should not) be coming back, well, we have new-blown contrarian snow for Dr. D to work... :- )

..........

Watching the postgame Sunday, I realized that I had radically under-estimated Griffey's and Sweeney's effect on the 2009 ballclub.

I thought that Griffey had been one among 3-4, maybe 5, key elements in turning a poisonous, backbiting, dysfunctional, underachieving group into a healthy, supportive, happy, overachieving group.

In reality, he along with Don Wakamatsu pulled a bona fide Billy Martin on this club in 2010. It goes much deeper than we thought it did.

............

It was just a series of little things that clued us in. For example, Sims' statement "I have been doing this since 1973, and have NEVER seen a tighter, closer ballclub than this one."

The genuine camaraderie and "We Are Spaaaarta!" hugs and glee out in the bullpen around John Wetteland. It was really quite odd to see such honest affection out there in the pen after #162 was over.

After the game today, Griffey got a ride around Safeco on the shoulders of his teammates ... along with one other guy, that being Ichiro... on the shoulders of CARLOS SILVA. What are you on drugs? Ichiro the hero and Carlos Silva, excluded from the team, at the head of the line in pushing him forward?

We could go on with many other things, but that captures it. It was genuinely remarkable, the BillyBall atmosphere that Wok and Junior, along with Sweeney, Wetteland and Capt Jack, pulled off in one spring training.

=== Fighting to Get Back to the Clubhouse Dept. ===

Do not disagree that maybe the M's need to get on with players they plan to win their next pennant with. But as to whether Griffey will retain influence in 2010, we all know that the back of Griffey's baseball card makes his the loudest voice in the locker room...

..............

Mike Sweeney is literally "praying" to be back, was reportedly walking around the clubhouse and dugout, trying to stretch the time out as long as possible. My man Erik Bedard, of all people, when he mumbles anything, it's about wanting to pitch in Seattle. Russell Branyan, to the delight of his agent we're sure, has signed a blank contract to be here.

Felix Hernandez was literally in tears at the prospect of having to leave his friends and go home.

Jack Zduriencik was in the booth and Sims wanted a statement on one man: Adrian Beltre. Gotta want him back, right Jack? He says he wants to be back!

Zduriencik, nicely, said something like "That is the kind of statement we have wanted to hear. We want people proud to wear the uniform, players who want to be here.... as to any one free agent, it's very difficult to comment."

...............

Sabermetrics are fine. I'm a sabermetrician. I've been one since about 1985. But the reinvention of the 2009 Mariners was not a mathematical one. Like in Piniella's first season, this season was about turning whiners into warriors.

Ken Griffey Jr. was a huge part of the BillyBall-type presto-chango. Is it a given that next season's clubhouse would carry on in the same vein without him? I dunno. Maybe.

To me, your 2010 need for Griffey boils down to your judgment as to whether Wakamatsu can now maintain the battle edge on his own.

That's a tough one,

Dr D

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Indeed.

I am very worried that next year's club will lose some focus without certain key personalities on board. I really hope they find a way to keep Junior a Mariner even if he's a roving instructor who sits in the dugout with them every day.

I was moved to tears watching Griffey and Ichiro carried off the field together...first of all, not even the hard-fighitng 2007 Mariners would have carried off Ichiro. That was agutsy team full of gamers that left it all on the field (so much so that they ran out of gas and died in early September). The photo-journal moment seeingt Griffey and Ichiro shaking hands, held high above their teammates, tears in Griffey's eyes and the fans refusing to leave until the players had all gone from the field...that symbolizes everything that was good about this club. Ichiro played harder than he has since 2001 - because he was FINALLY happy to be here! And that is entirely on Griffey and Wak laying down the law and getting the rest of the team to appreciate him.

Today's win might as well have been the 7th game of the ALCS...the crowd was really into it, especially at the end...and the players...I don't believe I've seen such emotion since the Mariners clinched the AL West shortly after 9/11 and Cameron toured Safeco waving the American flag. Can you really ask for too much more in a finale?

McLemore

That was McLemore carrying the flag in 2001 but the point is the same.

Did you catch the song they were playing as Griffey was hoisted up? "We are Family". They abruptly transitioned to his hip-hop "Hey-Ho" song but I think they should have left it with Sister Sledge.

The lady that has the Section 331 blog has some great video clips from the game on her blog. Y'all really have to check them out. The broadcast view is great but the view from the seats is waaay cool.

LOL a few times

At this post. Thanks Doc!

Bear in mind that part of the euphoria of this season is due to the epic dysfunction that existed in the M's clubhouse the past few years. There's not likely to be the same level of giddiness next year. C'mon, these are teammates that were tickling - tickling! each other. Has that ever happened in baseball before?

But even with what will likely be a more measured clubhouse next year, Griffey would adopt the correct stance there as well. He's shown a real feel for setting the right tone for the club. From early in the season when he gently but firmly intruded in the media's focus on last year's team resenting Ichiro, to his simultaneous mocking /supporting of Wak's rules by wearing ties with Wak's image on them... Well Ichiro called Junior a genius at being a teammate as well as at playing baseball. I thought this was hyperbole when I read it, but the more I think about it, the more I think he might be right.

I wonder if Griffey wants to

I wonder if Griffey wants to come back? I'd be a little worried about the psyche of the team without him in '10..

I think the Ms can find one spot for Griffey but it would be difficult to sneak in two for Sweeney as well. Maybe Fister can be made into the long-man or something to eat enough innings for those roster spots?

Yes...I already posted that scenario.

As I noted earlier this month, you can have BOTH Griffey AND Sweeney on your bench as the platoon #10 man if you are willing to carry 6 relievers and make two of them long men.

Moore (C)
Johnson (BC)
Branyan (1B)
Sweeney (1B/DH)
Lopez (2B)
Tuiasosopo (3B)
Wilson (SS)
Hall (UT)
Saunders (LF)
Gutierrez (CF)
Ichiro! (RF)
Langerhans/Ackley (OF4)
Griffey (OF5 / DH)
Free Agne tmahser (DH)

King Felix (SP1)
Erik Bedard (SP2)
Ian Snell (SP3)
Ryan Rowland-Smith (SP4)
Brandon Morrow (SP5)
Doug Fister (LRR)
Luek French/Jason Vargas/Garrett Olson (LRL)
Shawn Kelley (MR2)
Sean White (MR1)
Mark Lowe (SU)
David Aardsma (CL)

Sweeney better return choice

Me? I'm hoping that Griffey gives a nod to the organization that he'd like to come back in a non-playing capacity. Make him a hitting coach. But, given his age, plus the significant decline of the past two seasons, the club doesn't need to eat up a roster spot when they NEED that spot for some of the prospect talent they desperately need to cycle through the roster in 2010.

Sweeney, IMO, is the smarter returnee, because he showed he can handle the righty-killing aspects of Safeco and it's proven to be much harder to find right-hand bats who can produce in Safeco. The significant age difference also lands majorly on the keep-Sweeney side of the ledger.

Tentative 2010 roster:

CA -- Moore/Johnson - (trade Joh ... please)
1B -- Branyan/Carp
2B -- Lopez
3B -- Tui (or swap with Lopez)
SS -- J.Wilson (is that a hedge, or what?)
LF -- Saunders
CF -- Gutz
RF -- Ichiro
DH -- Carp/Branyan
bench - Sweeney RH - DH
Langerhans - 4th OF
J.Wilson -- IF backup (but it'll probably be Hall)

Maybe Z goes out to plug LF with somebody juicier, or 3B, if you think you're pushing Tui too fast, (if budget allows). But, I think too many have forgotten that for a large chunk of the season Ronny Cedeno was the sole bench option that could play defense, because you never risk your #2 catcher, and the twin DH guys would be lost for multiple games if/when forced to play defense. (Sweeney had a grand total of 35 innings at 1B), and Griffey played 11 games in the field over the entire season, (most early, before they realized how bad it was on his knees to do so).

The top two specs in the org are a 1B and a 3B. If you transition Branyan to DH, and actually give him some days off to avoid fatigue injuries, then you get your top two specs learning during the season you EXPECT will be the transition to true contender. You use the Beltre savings to try and get Felix signed long-term, WHILE STILL ENTHUSED ABOUT 2009.

The Ms stand at perhaps the hardest point on the rebuilding timeline. You're a .500 team that "feels" close enough to compete immediately. But, you have prospects that are poised to slide into open roster slots. Do you resist the urge to go for the quick fix and kill your development program via trade or free agency, or do you roll the dice that the talent you're developing is ultimately going to be worth the growing pains. You've gotta make that choice KNOWING that it is likely that the growing pains may well cost you a shot at the post-season in 2009 that you might be able to achieve with a quick-fix veteran.

In truth, it would've been easier for Z if the club HAD only gone 77-85, so the temptation to do another Bedard maneuver wouldn't be out there. Moore, Carp, Tui, Saunders. All four of these guys got some September ABs, and if you're thinking World Series, you need all four to blossom in 2010. The odds are strongly against that result. But, where do you gamble, and who do you tell they need another year in AAA?

One possible scenario is a sign and trade with Beltre. Get him to sign a 1-year, with a plan to trade him at the deadline for whatever need is greatest, while giving Tui another half season of ... um, seasoning. You hope Ackley arrives in 2011.

IMO, 2010 is a perfect season for getting a realistic read on your near-ready talent. But, to get a true read, you need to give these guys 300-400 chances, playing full time. THEN, maybe you'll figure out which guys are really going to continue posting 1/5 eye ratios, and must be replaced. Wlad got 430 PAs with Seattle before they sent him packing. And one could easily make an argument that wasn't enough. But, at some point, you've gotta make that call - good or bad. Whatever Seattle was teaching Wlad, he wasn't succeeding with, so it made sense to trade him.

So, this off-season, the choice of trading or dipping into the FA market ... those decisions all have ramifications for those juicy, near-ready prospects: Moore, Carp, Tui, Saunders, (you could include Johnson and Ackley if you wish). And what about guys like Halman and Triunfel? Or Ez Carrera? Gillies? Liddi? The GM doesn't have the luxury of mono-focusing on the major league club. He has to know where every player in the org stands on their development path, so you can make 3 year plans.

Hopefully, if Z makes any trades this off-season, I'm hoping he adds some MI prospects so the club can hopefully avoid the string of disasters it had at short in 2009.

I would agree...

...if we have to choose one or the other, Sweeney would be my pick as well. I am merely speculating on how the roster could be constructed to get Junior a small role and keep him active for another year if the Mariners were so inclined without blocking the DH spot for rotating prospects through (like Carp) or for acquiring a slugger to upgrade the line-up.