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Erik-kkk-kkk-kkk's 2009 value

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misterjonez's picture
Submitted by misterjonez on

But I'll present a (pseudo) counter-argument to the leveraged value of a great-but-injured player vs. a fair/good-but-built-Ford-Tough guy, as it relates to pitchers in specific, but also position players in general.

For a team like, say, the turn of the century Texas Rangers, a Bedard vs. Washburn discussion is different than it is for the 2010 Mariners.  Those Rangers teams were loaded with offense, pretty poor at defense in general, and had like zero dependable pitching.  For those teams, they knew they were going to score plenty on a night-in, night-out basis.  They also knew that plenty of times, they'd watch a trainwreck on the mound which would overcome their potent offense's abilities.

For those teams, a Jarrod Washburn type of pitcher might actually be more valuable than an Erik Bedard type gamble.  With Washburn/Sele, you knew what you were going to get, and at least from the on-field perspective it helps to have confidence in your team-mates.  For them, if they had the choice of five Jarrods out there, or five Bedards, they'd have to go with the Burn every time.  Their team didn't *need* 5 WAR pitching in the rotation.  They *needed* a lock-down bullpen and a rotation that wouldn't let the margin get too wide.

The other factor to consider, obviously, is depth.  This is sort of addressed in the previous example, but for the Mariners to back up Felix/Lee/Bedard with RRS/Snell/Fister/Vargas/whoever else, it allows them to play the Stars & Scrubs game a little more effectively since M's scrubs have the potential to throw a Washburn/Sele-esque 4.6 ERA over a season.  That possibility essentially didn't exist for the 2000's Texas Rangers teams.  Their guys would come in and go 4-10 with a 6.80 ERA over half a year with almost zero pleasant surprises from the farm.

If you've got a 115 OPS+ for the team, and by signing five Washburn/Sele/Doug Davis types you can solidify your team ERA+ at league average, you're going to make a case for the playoffs.  Bedard type gambles are not a good proposition for teams that have no pitching depth, or teams that don't *need* their rotation to be a devastating weapon in order to survive.  Michael Young/A-ROD/Pudge/Juan Gonzales/whatever other juggernauts were on those offenses pretty much make up the 'core' of your franchise.  You let them do the heavy lifting and you just get them enough pitching to keep it close early.

 

 

jemanji's picture
Submitted by jemanji on

and ya, Jonezie, if you've got The Big Red Machine and a very dubious pitching stock in the minors (as they did) then a nice safe average pitcher like Fred Norman might be the route to 108 wins.

There are times when your big priority is for pitchers to not beat themselves. 

Not sure that time is when you're #14 in the league in runs scored, of course ... :- )

misterjonez's picture
Submitted by misterjonez on

about this particular team's needs being Godzilla-style monster stompage from the rotation, since we're unlikely to be anything approaching respectable at the plate.  I was in the 'Sign Bedard, Sheets AND Harden' before the offseason started.  You could probably lock in 1.8-2.2 pitcher seasons from those three, and it would all be Cy Young caliber innings.

Of course, then we went and traded for Bruc- erm, Cliff Lee.  Even considering the modest injury risk we're assuming on him (which is the only thing that makes me a bit queasy about him..Philly jumped on the chance to take the grab-bag of 'spects without anything resembling a bidding war...maybe some health concerns on their part that they didn't want being exposed by umpteen physicals?), he's a major add.

Still, we need to add a centerpiece bopper at 1B.  To begin the process of building a playoff caliber offense.

M's Watcher's picture
Submitted by M's Watcher on

like Olson and Frenchy don't help your case to complement Bedard.  I'd rather have a Wash 2009 redux for the year, and Bedard for whomever sucks most at that time.

Along the same lines as Ricky in 117 games, last year I would have preferred the first half Branyan, followed by the 60 day DL at the break, and Carp getting his feet wetter in the second half.  Russ "left us hosed" in the second half until he went on the DL.

jemanji's picture
Submitted by jemanji on

... as to the Scrubs, if that's what the M's #3-8 SP field were going to do, provide below replacement pitching, then yeah.  You'd break your leg running to the meet with Jo-El Pineiro.

Interesting that a few good M's buds fear the worst out of our SP scrubs.  I like our SP scrubs real well.  Fister, Hill, etc., have very low BB rates as #7 SP's go.

..........

Gimme Washburn at $5m, a blockbuster for AGone (or Carlos Pena for that matter) and we'll re-title the blog JUGGERNAUT! and go play the 5-gallon tub drums outside Safeco every night.

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