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Bird and Magic in the baseball dugout

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ghost's picture
Submitted by ghost on

He reminds me of the stubborn scientists I work with on a daily basis who think that their way of studying is the only way to learn something valid.  My own boss/adviser thinks that because when he was angry, he worked harder, that everyone should work harder/better when angered...so he goes out of his way to tick his students off.  It fails miserably with most of us who need positive reinforcement to thrive.  But hey...what do I know...

*rolls eyes&

Agreed 100% Doc...Ryan is an egotist in the extreme...and his comments about demanding more pitches from his staff are grating.

kgaffney's picture
Submitted by kgaffney on

I agree that he wasn't a manager so that people could revel in his greatness, but I do think he did the M's a disservice by being so adament about player personality.  

In fact, it parallels what I had to say about the Faces post from a few days ago.  If what you want is performance, why select off criteria other than performance?  You had to make it through the Piniella hazing to pitch for the M's.  The question is how many pitchers failed the Piniella hazing that could have passed the true test -- getting batters out in MLB?

In defense of Piniella, and others I suppose, you are trying to determine future success and present results only give you a partial picture for the future.  My guess is Piniella figured if you couldn't handle his yelling, how could you handle Yankee stadium in October.  Some people truly have a devil may care attitude, but some people can do great things if they know someone has their back in a time of need, but struggle with self doubt if they feel they are going it alone.  Us versus them provides powerful motivation, motivation that internal hazing and foxhole politics can significantly undermine.

jemanji's picture
Submitted by jemanji on

The destruction of Paul Spoljaric was a particularly appalling example.  He came over here as a 10K lefty and Lou would go to the press and talk about Spoljaric, quote, "spitting the bit" if he got behind a hitter in a tight game.  The media would then put this in the next day's paper... arrrgggghhhh...

Lou's sticking with Bobby Ayala, despite the blizzards of HR balls on fastballs out-and-over, is another case in point...

His biases cost the M's large and often.  On the other hand, the pre-1993 Mariners were wussies plain and simple, and I'll always be grateful to Lou for grabbing them by the scruff of the neck and teaching them to fight.

mojician's picture
Submitted by mojician on

Athletes are a mixed bag.  Some need to be yelled at to get the best work out of them, others need a kind word, others need their special Batman socks, or whatever.

Is it better to coach a team with the same standards, approach and methodology for everyone, or is it better to approach coaching on a case by case basis?

If a coach coaches for individualized success, he may risk creating jealousy and dysfunction.  If he coaches from a set bar standpoint, he may risk losing some of the best work from individual players, who may not jell with his style.

I've heard a lot about Pinella liking pitchers who throw strikes, no matter what, and going ballistic on pitchers who nibble and give up walks.  Is Wedge like that? Does he have a set game, where he envisions the game scenario he wants, or does he take what he can from each of his players?

The Mariners had a lot of strikeouts last year.  Was that Wedge's legitimate attempt to coax power out of a team when it didn't have any, or is Wedge too biased against the small ball OBP game?  Or, maybe he was trying to teach power, in hopes that it would materialize the hitters he wanted in the future.

Just noodling.

jemanji's picture
Submitted by jemanji on

Wedge obviously wants hitters "attacking" the pitcher, and by "attacking" he does NOT mean "get him early in the count."  He means go up there looking for a way to hurt the pitcher.

Still, as you point out, this one-size-fits-all approach could work to some players' disadvantage.  Kyle Seager comes to mind as one possible.  He's a stealthy hitter...

I'd like to think that Wedge is flexibly minded.  Dustin Ackley came up and took lots of close pitches, but Wedge raved about him and put him high in the lineup LONG before other managers would have.  And wound up batting him 3, whereas the rest of the world seemed to think 2 was a given.

I think that the blog-o-sphere at large did not perceive the systemic problem that Wedge was facing to start the 2011 season.

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