This Debate Is Preposterous
And Dr. D is getting wayyyyy too ticked off about it :- )

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HOT SEAT:  The Times hanging on every Erasmo Ramirez pitch as though he were an NPB import trying to show who he was.

DR D, in AUDIO MODE:  The human mind is a funny thing.  We have a wonderful capacity to re-set.  We have the ability to completely forget the problems of yesterday, and simply move on starting with a blank piece of paper.

This can be helpful, say, when you've caught your wife having an affair and she apologizes by bringing home a red negligee.  It's not as helpful when you have a young kid who is a demonstrated 1+ BB pitcher with three strikeout pitches, and you forget that he's good.

The Times, weirdly, is brushing off Ramirez' 2012 as a short sample.  My unrehearsed reaction to that?  "Yeah, Carter Capps only threw 99 MPH a few times too.  But it doesn't mean he has to throw 99 for another two years before we get it."

Ramirez demonstrated his plus-plus command and his 1+ BB rates.  You've got a pitcher who walks 1+ guys, the only question you've got left is whether he can put guys away with two strikes.  Blake Beavan was the counterexample.  Erasmo Ramirez is the very opposite end of that spectrum.

If your wonderful human capacity to forget has blanked your mind on Erasmo Ramirez, here are two quick SSI reads:

With Carter Capps, it's not about 40 saves before you understand the situation.  It's about knowing what a sidearm, easy 99 MPH means.

With Erasmo, it's not about 30 more Erasmo starts, to create a "large sample."  It's about understanding where that 1+ BB is coming from, and understanding the knockout weapons that he has to go with them.

This debate is absurd.  It's contrary to reason.  It's nonsensical.  It has no intelligible meaning.  The debate is a parody of itself.  You had a young starter come up and show you that he's terrific, and now you kick him to the curb over a 100 ERA+ meatball who might or might not be past his surgery.

The process here is wrong.  It's not often we say that.

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Comments

2
ghost's picture

The Mariners are in fact the stupidest organization in major league baseball...even now.

3

Either the decision maker lacks wisdom and intelligence, or the reasons being communicated for the decision are not the real reasons.
I have no interest in trying to talk you out of your stance since I agree with you stance as stated, but Garland has not yet made the team instead of Erasmo, and I do not believe the criteria for the judgement have been communicated publicly. The discussion about M's decision making is no more forthright than Obama's state of the union or a John Boehner public statement about taxes. All these statements are political, at best designed to persuade, usually to distract -- these are no the spending cuts you are looking for -- and certainly not to open thoughtful debate.
So why would Jack consider bringing in Garland in the first place?
1) He doesn't give pitchers time in the bigs until they demonstrate consistency with the approach that they will implement in the bigs -- I believe this is why Beavan and Ramirez have gotten time in the bigs and Walker, Paxton, and Hultzen have not yet. While this doesn't explain Garland over Ramirez, it does significantly shorten the list of options that Jack appears ready to rely on in 2013.
2) This means Jack's list of candidates for the rotation that he trusts today is short. And he can't trust Iwakuma, Ramirez, Maurer, and Beavan to put up 200+ innings this year. So he would like options that he can trust more than Paxton, Hultzen, and Walker. That is why Maurer is still around, but he can't be trusted for big innings either. His delayed ascent as a gold plated prospect is a result of injury not talent (last year was the first fully healthy year he has had as a Mariner, I believe).
3) The young ones have options, Garland doesn't. Jack needs 7 or 8 options he can trust to throw strikes and get outs as MLB starters, because outside of Felix and Saunders, no one has a track record for tossing 200+ innings. What if Garland is his 6th or 7th best option, but option #5 (say Ramirez for arguments sake) can come up in June when someone has shoulder soreness but Garland cannot. If he goes with Ramirez in April and it is Ramirez that gets a sore shoulder, he can't stash Garland in Tacoma to be called up in June. This means he needs to be able to bank on Hultzen, Maurer, or Paxton being ready when a pitcher goes down -- what if they are not?
Me, I roll the dice that by June, I have a pitcher that looks ready to try the big leagues on for size. In fact, I think this is what Jack will decide as well, but we'll see.

4

kgaffney,
We have lots of pitchers that "look ready to try the big leagues on for size." That's Doc's point. By your reasoning, The Cubs should have kept Greg Maddux down in he gave up a WHIP of 1.6, H/9 of 10.5, 4.3 BB's with 5.8 K's in his age 21 first go-around.
The next year he was at 1.2, 8.3, 2.9 & 5.1.
Then he became Greg Maddux. He came up about the same age as ERAM, btw. In 156 AAA innings, he gave up 8.3 hits/9 with 2.4 BB's and 5.0 K's. Man, ERam was way better than that as a major leaguer last year.
OK, I know...he's no Mad Dog.
But he's better than Garland...and has proved it.
If Morse and Morales are one year guys, we can hardly stand 10-13 Garland starts....when there are a BUNCH of better guys in AAA.
The fact that this thing has legs probably means that there is some sort of decent chance it happens. There is no way to defend it.
Garland was last better than ERam is right now in '05.
So there you go.
moe

5

Garland does have some things to recommend him (if you look at his splits, he allows a .750ish OPS in most categories, which indicates that he rarely gives batters an opening to demolish him), but we also can't just assume Erasmo will out pitch him out of the gate. Consider Felix Hernandez's 2nd season after obliterating the AL in his first, or check out what Juan Nicasio did for the Rockies last season before getting hurt after a 2011 in which he outperformed Erasmo.
It is not unreasonable for Wedge to want more than 2 out of his 5 starring pitchers to have more than 200 ML innings pitched. It is not unreasonable to believe that Jon Garland or even Blake Beavan can be more valuable to the club early in the season because they have demonstrated the ability to adjust to the adjustments that Major League players make while Erasmo Ramirez needs to be told to not always throw strikes. Ramirez may well out pitch both, but what if last year's out performance of his minor league numbers was due to a lack of scouting on him? If he's a guy who will have an ERA around 4 while give up 9+ hits per 9, then he's not such a big improvement on Garland after all, and Garland might give the Mariners a 1% better chance to win this year, who knows.

6
bsr's picture

Organizational DNA from the top (JAPAN) down is risk averse in the worst way. Like a tight-passive poker player who bleeds to death from the blinds. It's like Doc says, when they (ownership) are trying to win...we'll know it. (You think it's Schneider and Carroll making the call on the last week of Hawks signings? Mr. Allen is the one cutting the checks.)
Here's what I don't get. If you throw E-Ram and Maurer out there, and one or both implode, and you've lost Jon Friggin Garland forever by cutting him in ST...is there not some other warmed over Vet you could trade one of your bajillion prospects for on short notice? Or give Hoss Millwood a call down on the ranch? Is this just not realistic?
Is JZ truly on the hot seat and needs .500 or bust? That's what I've always assumed about this year. Maybe that's the simplest explanation. Sigh. Can't wait to follow our epic quest for 82 wins.
Let's hope the kids break out and force their hands :)

7

... that being human BIAS.  :- ) As when fear overrides logic.  My worry is that Zduriencik and Wedge are suddenly losing their nerve.
It's one thing to want to make the safe play.  It's another thing when you fold a winning hand because you're panicking at the thought of an inside straight draw.  Erasmo is the percentage play.
..............
But, absolutely.  Very possible that something is being lost in the translation ... I suspect that you and I would agree that SOMETHING is being misconstrued there.
.............
I certainly hope so.  Erasmo shouldn't be competing for a job on any level.  This is one of those situations in which 12 IP in Arizona should not overturn the things we saw from Erasmo in 2012; I'm sure you agree with the level of weight that should (not) be put on Erasmo's spring.  You might as well start Jesus Montero or Tom Wilhelmsen from scratch this March...
If Erasmo is in spring training for ANY reason other than to show that he still has the clockwork mechanics, and normal velocity, then the M's bias toward "proven" MLB(TM) production is overriding their sense of reason.
..............
Very interesting post, as always, Dr. K.

9

Dr K, your point about Z being nervous about #2, maybe even #3, and therefore wanting extra stability at #4-5, that's a point with legs.
Whether Jon Garland provides more risk avoidance than Erasmo Ramirez is another question.  I can certainly empathize with the idea that, standing 3' away from either of them on the grass, that Garland would FEEL less risky.  From a coolly detached standpoint, I'll argue that the real gamble is the other way.
Gimme the roto team with Erasmo 2013, over the one with Garland, any day.  But down on the grass I'm sure it doesn't feel like that.

10

You've pointed this factor out several times, and it's one of the best light bulbs you've installed here.  Keep reminding us.
.........
G-Money has pointed out that other org's don't have this bias -- Oakland with Gio, LA with Kershaw, etc.  But obviously the M's do like for their pitchers to be near-finished products.
Maurer does seem to be that -- a near-finished product, from an execution standpoint -- and Erasmo is OBVIOUSLY that.  We'll see where it gets them.

11
Brent's picture

E-Ram said in an interview after the game he was throwing his slider to bust lefties inside and it wasn't breaking, just flattening out and staying over the middle of the plate. Said he was glad they stayed in the park. He pitched out of jams, which while you don't want to be in one in the first place it's good he can show he knows how to limit damage and get out of the inning.

12
Rob's picture

I still don't see the competition being Garland vs. Ramirez. I really think it's two separate battles: Garland vs. Bonderman, Beavan vs. Ramirez. I agree with the "veteran insurance" angle being put forth, but it's only for 1 spot, not two; hence, Gar vs. Bond. I think it is convoluting it to express it any other way.
I get that there are two spots and 4 guys, but I don't actually believe the roles are completely fungible in the minds of the brass. (For ex. there is NO way Gar and Bond both make the team. It's basically, "Can one of the old guys stick? Great. It's one young guy instead of two."

13

With what I know, I would start Erasmo and wouldn't have invited Garland to camp, but what I know is extremely limited compared to Jack and Eric. Does that make them right? Of course not, my only point was dismissing the decisions of others as crazy is a great recipe for stagnating and never learning anything new. I realize that Doc wasn't dismissing Jack and Eric, that is not his stye, but the level of frustration was unusual for Doc. So I just wondered to myself, are there reasons, rather than biases, that could explain the decision making? Basically, the whole story doesn't make sense to me, so I presumed I was missing something and hypothesized what it might be, that is all.

14

...but why didn't they trade a single blue chip prospect this Winter if that were true? You telling me they couldn't have done better than Garland with a trade of Paxton and Franklin, two players that aren't going to be on the big league roster?

15

The organization could be losing it's nerve, or frankly never had any. That makes more sense to me. The perplexing and confusing decision making is a sign of organizational disfunction.

16

but I don't run the team. As I said to Mo, if I run the team Garland isn't even in camp, but maybe that is foolish of me.

17

After Garland's last interview ("There are 29 other teams") vs. Erasmo's very cool quotes today (seriosly , check Baker's interview with him, it warms your heart), you have no choice but to root for Erasmo.

18

I like that insight too. Not sure I agree with it, assuming it is a correct assessment of the M's decision making, but it is defensible.

19

I grok'ked that first time 'round, but thanks for the PSA.
Your intent to get out to the control truck, check the monitors and cameras and replay angles that we hadn't yet looked at, that's the very spirit of SSI.  
And by the way, I feel a little less shrill, having seen the play from the reverse angle.  OOmmmmmmmmmm... .

20

Are the inconsistencies apparent or real? Will there a resolution of the situation compatible with design currents of the franchise, or is all this indicative of panic or confusion? A couple of months should make things clearer.

21

In that a Garland over ERam decision isn't "crazy" in hte real sense. It's somewhere in the neighborhood, however. :)
Your idea as ERam as the fallback position, which doesn't exist with Garland, is interesting. But were that Z & W's play, here, I wouldn't understand that either. Why wouldn't you fallback position on an ERam collapse just be Maurer or Hultzen? By then you would have probably saved a year with them.
I think it was Robert E. Lee that once said an army was a beautiful thing and a commander had to be careful about being reluctant to use that beautiful thing for what it was designed for. That's a liberal paraphrase, I'm sure.
We have built this beautiful thing of young talent and now we seem reluctant to roll it out into battle where some of it might be destroyed. Perhaps ERam implodes this year....it won't be due to the fact that he didn't get 15 more AAA starts. On that, I am sure.
Ditto Hultzen, Maurer, Romero, etc.
Almost all young guys have some early struggles. Willie Mays went o'fer 24, or some such thing. I mentioned Maddux above. Harper had stretches of them last year. Man, it is part of the learning process. But that process exists whether a player is 22 or 25.
So roll them out early.
I appreciate your attempt to find a rational in the Garland over ERam issue. And perhaps the issue is all ours and not really something Wedge is contemplating. But if that is so, why wouldn't he just say, "Man, I'm really excited to see ERam in game 4! The kid looks great!"
I am quite sure we have the best stable of young starter-type arms in the game. Young arms aren't collectables, however. Their use isn't in polishing them and sitting them on the shelf for all to admire. Their true use is in trotting them out in Safeco and lfinding out what they've got. Tacoma is a nice place. But basically, it don't mean diddly in the development of a pitcher.
Sorry if I came across to aggressive in the last post. I do realize you had said you wouldn't walk down the Garland path were you the GM.
moe

22
bsr's picture

Good read. Erasmo just sounds like a sharp guy (as folks around here have been saying).
Now Baker is talking about Garland needing a month to get up to game speed...accepting a couple bombs in April.
When you get down to it, seems like the team just doesn't agree with the good Doctor here on Erasmo's prognosis in 2013. The most charitable scenario is they want his 180 IP running into Sept/Oct. But then why the almost religious mantra about Garland's amazing 200 IP ability...sure doesn't sound like a stopgap.

23
Lonnie of MC's picture

...but, there is still another explanation, and most everyone isn't going to like it. Jack Zduriencik, for all of his baseball acumen has an aspect to him that we all just kind of gloss over, and that is that he is also a business man. Sometimes Jack has to approach a situation from the business, and it will make ZERO sense to those of us who look at the organization as purely a baseball team. Believe me, even if Jack is doing something from a business approach, he is doing it with the best interest of the team in his heart.
Out of pure dumb luck I've come across a piece of intel that I would love to write about and share with everyone, but I can't. I don't mean to be smarmy, I just can't share it right now.

24
Lonnie of MC's picture

...that is moldy and smelly with age. It is also wrong. Very wrong. Folks need to hop off of that "woe is me, my team is the worst team in the history of baseball" bandwagon because that is a ride that goes nowhere. Seriously, "not trying to win" is a sentiment that just like Chone Figgins, needs to go away.

25
glmuskie's picture

Bonderman and Garland both have dismal sound bites coming out of their mouths. 'If this doesn't work out, there are 29 other teams' - Garlands quote as you say. Bonderman's was something like, 'Well I've proven to myself I can still get big leaguers out. If they send me down to the minors, that's the business. I could just go home for the season instead, no big woop'
These are guys that made their millions and are making an effort to come back, but the burning desire to compete, the love for the game, it is not there. What's this Wedge is spouting about competition? Sounding more and more like lip service.

26
bsr's picture

It's shorthand oversimplification obviously. We all understand it as such. Maybe we are just snake bitten and it's going to turn around soon. Given total lack of successful RESULTS with the Ms...we fans are forced to become expert PROCESS watchers to have anything hopeful to root for. So when we see signs of a seemingly flawed process...it is extra distressing.
I can appreciate that things look different at field level vs on the net. Hoping your secret scoop will see daylight soon...you're killing us here =D

27
Rob's picture

Except to be smarmy? ;) Incidently, is this the same bit of 'news' you referenced in the shoutbox a couple days back, or is this new, more juicy news?

28
misterjonez's picture

However, let me give a personal example of why it resonates with me fairly deeply.
In high school, I took up wrestling because I loved boxing with my brother, watching UFC as a kid and playing soccer. So physically, I was in great shape and used to athletics. I wasn't truly gifted physically until high school when I discovered that there were only a handful of seniors who were physically stronger than myself as a freshman. My high school had 1100 students my freshman year.
After a year of getting turned into burger by the team and coaches, I arrived in wrestling camp my sophomore year ready to compete, at least I thought. You know what I discovered? I wasn't mean enough. I was stronger than all but our returning AAA state champs, and I was better at takedowns and takedown defense than literally all but two of my teammates. I never got higher than 2nd string JV, and I wasn't behind anyone of note.
What I needed to be doing was IMPOSING MY WILL on my teammates ruthlessly and wihout consideration for their well-being or athletic careers. I didn't understand that it was a fight to total submission; I thought it was a friendly athletic exercise.
If I had gone on a tear, and broken arms, ribs and strained my teammates' will to compete with me, I would have been varsity easily. I'm not exaggerating, I was that good physically and technically, winning regional freestyle and takedown tournaments. I beleive that it was simply my lack ofanimalistic, testosterone-fuelled will to crush my enemies, see them driven before me and hear the lamentation of their women that did me in. I was too 'Yin'd' and not enough 'Yang'd'. I'm better now, but still not where I need to be, and that's after years of working to remedy the situation.
The M's are in PRECISELY the same situation, with major economic and geographic advantages over their opponents. The problem is,they don't go for the throat EVER. They think it's a friendly athletic exercise that might go their way eventually. Does anyone think that approach will work?
THAT is what I think people mean when they say the M's don't want to win. Of course they are high-powered executives, likely better at their jobs than any of us will ever be at ours. But relative to their true peers, like those across the street, they are woefully inadequate in Yang.

29
muddyfrogwater's picture

However, next year I expect to see 3 league minimum pitchers to start the season. A slow progression but moving ahead.

30
bsr's picture

+++ great story...thanks for sharing :) I think Z and Wedge have the requisite t-count to compete hard...the Ms weak link has always been ownership (and HowieChuck to an extent...but they are just the foot soldiers to the check writers). Look at our majority owner...an absentee maker of cutesy family fun technology...no shock that the team is run the way they are. The issue is fundamentally financial and business based. Anyway enough pessimism...let's hope Z has the magic touch to overcome his constraints...starting right about now!

31

This is really what we've learned from SSI. If things don't make any sense, it's somewhat likely that it's because we don't have all the information that the guys making the decisions have. Last year, we lamented Iwakuma's relegation to the bench early in the season but we didn't know (as Baker did know) that it was taking the guy three days to recover from throwing a couple of ST innings. There was literaly no way he could have started coming out of ST. If we had know what the club's coaches and trainers knew at the time, we would not have been so incredulous. And it appears that the club made the right call.
I don't know what is driving the "safe vets on one year contracts" thing in 2013 but something is. Risk aversion, talent readiness evaluation..something.

32

You bring in vets like Garland and Bonderman on minor league contracts, because in February you cannot be sure that everyone you "expect" in your rotation will be healthy. You also do not know in February just how your prospects will perform in the new year.
Noesi was the organization pick last year and performed well enough to get a spot out of ST. This year, he is apparently attempting to fix some of last year's problems and at the moment is a complete train wreck.
There was no guarantee that Hultzen or Paxton or Maurer (or Erasmo or Beavan) was going to impress in ST. So, you bring in extra bodies, "in case" you need them.
But, when you have a full rotation performing up to expectation ... your "stop loss" guys should not leap over them simply because they have multiple years of being mediocre.
My sense of things is Wedge (not Z) is likely the guy who wants Garland ... because my view of Wedge from early on is that he prefers any body that makes WEDGE's job easier. With Garland, Wedge just pencils in the name and any failure is on Garland - he's a vet, after all. But, if a Beavan or Erasmo or Noesi runs into trouble, it become's Wedge's job to figure out a solution to the problem.
I have no direct knowledge and admit this is pure speculation ... but my sense is that Wedge would rather have 4 vets and one prospect, simply because it means less work for Wedge than 3 vets and 2.

33
glmuskie's picture

FWIW, Divish guesses today on the radio that Ramirez and Beavan make the club; Garland gets released to try it with another team and Bonderman takes a AAA Tacoma assignment. That would be fine with me.

34
ghost's picture

Here's to hoping that Baker is just too close to the field on this one and is hearing Wedge heap praise on Garland to do him a favor when he tries with other clubs.

35
benihana's picture

I do love that we are getting all worked up about the 5th/6th starter and 5th/6th outfielder roster battles.
Certainly Wells vs. Bay has a lot less overall impact than Figgins over Seager. And how many, many, many years were we just looking for a live body to fill that fifth starter roll?
I love it when the biggest debates of camp are our 24th and 25th roster spots. Love it.
- Ben.

36

True, 'dat. The club that breaks camp in 2013 is going to be a LOT better than the one that broke camp in 2012. Morse over Ichiro in RF. Seagar over Figgins at 3B. Montero over Olivo at C and Morales over Montero at DH. Garland over Noesi at SP. Those are all pretty big upgrades. Add in Capps over Kelly and Pryor over Delabar and this team is markedly improved.

37
ghost's picture

Smoak over himself, Saunders over himself, Ackley over himself, Andino over Kawasaki, Ibanez over Peguero, Perez over the struggling version of Iwakuma, and Gutierrez back to full health.
Those are a LOT of upgrades.

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Chat: 9/1/15 5:22am
Interests: Baseball Football Soccer History Beer (215957)
    Shouts update every 10 seconds.       
2015-09-04 20:09

Welcome to the majors moment.. grand salami....yikess

2015-09-04 18:19

Besides Olmos control issues, he had ok outing last time out.. plus all the sudden the team is on fire at thebplate. If Cano was doing this earlier in the year we'd be in the big dance. Even with Cruz slumping a bit..all the sudden the team putting up digits

2015-09-04 15:13

This is an interesting subject. People think the M's are dysfunctional for being run like a residual trust by a bunch of lawyers and accountants who always take a conservative approach to things. This may all be true, but the city has not dealt with a bona fide delusional, overbearing, arbitrary tantrum throwing #Baseball billionaire before. What if we had one of the tyrants of legend? The George Steinbrenner, Marge Schott, Jeffrey Loria types. The #Seattle GM job may seem extremely desirable, because there is a board rather than an individual billionaire to work for.

2015-09-04 13:08

Most #Boston fans think the problems there are connected to ownership, not the GM

2015-09-04 12:46

Cherington had nothing whatsoever to do with most of what you just mentioned. That was cleaning up Epstein's mess.

2015-09-04 10:55

Among young analytic types, DiPoto seems like a clean win over Ben Cherington, Cherington has presided over some world class dysfunction in #Boston the last umpteen years. There was the Carl Crawford, A-Gone controversy, the Lackey chickengate controversy, and now Hanley Ramirez and Pablo Sandoval controversies. Cherington and his managers do not command the respect of their veterans. Not that he he would automatically turn Felix, Kuma, Cano and Cruz into lazy chicken eating instagramming #Beer drinking shlubs, But still, if Z was fired for lack of leadership, Cherington shouldn't be hired with that track record.

2015-09-04 09:06

I'm on the DiPoto train. Out of the candidates with GM experience he seems like a clear win over the likes of Williams, O'Dowd, Jennings, etc. Younger guy, which I love, #History of SABR, etc. I think it could be great, ignoring our prior #History with Angels GMs.

2015-09-04 06:31

DiPoto has moved into the lead for my top draft position for the new GM from the pile of realistic candidates...really hope Mather picks well here.

2015-09-03 23:08

More DiPoto stuff: He signed Mike Trout to an extension so club friendly that Trout got in trouble with the union. Also, his teams won a lot with Jared Weaver as their best pitcher.

2015-09-03 21:32

Angels fans are afraid they will never get another good GM because Sciosca and Moreno now have a malignant rep and Sciosca is entrenched.

2015-09-03 21:28

Angels fans view DiPoto's strengths to be that he is good at running a farm system and he is a good sabe.

2015-09-03 21:05

Further, Angels fans universally loved DiPoto. Further, he wasn't fired. His team is fun to follow because he changes his scrubs from week to week. He doesn't hold with floundering rookies working out their kinks on TV.

2015-09-03 20:56

Jerry DiPoto to interview. DiPoto can deal with some nonsense. His boss, Moreno, signs or fires players, like Josh #Hamilton, on his own. His underling, Sciosca, refuses to deploy the shift. Sciosca apparently doesn't believe in it.

2015-09-03 20:09

So things appear to be working as designed now. Thanks, admins.

2015-09-03 19:52

Everything I've said, I stand by - but I also wanted to take time out to thank KLAT for their hard work on our behalf. There's no such thing as a free lunch, but you guys have given us almost that very thing, and that's rare. Our experience of Mariner #Baseball fandom would have been far emptier without your willingness to work with Jeff and put up with us whining when stuff doesn't work. :)

Reply - Browns8625 - 9/4/15 6:12pm
Well put
2015-09-03 18:40

Hey #Seattle Sports Insiders - We all hope that you enjoy the new #SeattleSportsInsider.com interface! We are working hard to improve your experience - and thanks for your patience with our launch. We look forward to your comments and hope that we are providing you a fun and informative site for your enjoyment - that's the goal of our project! - Richard

2015-09-03 18:34

I originally saw the sub categories at top when first loaded on #Mobile, but then they disappeared.. am I missing something?

Reply - Richard - 9/3/15 6:43pm
We're working on mobile menus now - and will work on improving links to relevant content shortly.Thanks for your help.
Reply - Browns8625 - 9/3/15 7:41pm
Thanks much, definately appreciate the site and work you guys do.. I certainly could not.
2015-09-03 18:11

normal article functionality is back - must have been related to their efforts to subcategorize the site. Which, BTW, I actually very much like. I want there to be room here for #Football and #Soccer discussions and I don't want it to distract the group that's just wanting to talk #Baseball, so this change is very positive. Doc - I see and understand your point regarding how lucky we've been with KLAT. I am not trying to be ungrateful...please understand that. I think it is not a good policy to discourage folks from letting the KLAT team know when we are dissatisfied with features they're implementing, though. I believe you when you say they're super nice guys...that's a great thing to know. I've never accused them of being mean or anything. :) I just feel that it is very important to let the site admins know how things are impacting the users here. They don't owe us anything at all...I get that. But it really would help if we understood their long term goals...just a little...it would make us all feel a little better about the project, I think.

Reply - Browns8625 - 9/3/15 6:32pm
Agreed.. this has definately been a baseball driven site Originally I thought it was just due to summer and regular season baseball play, until someone straightened me out lol
2015-09-03 16:37

Seems to work pretty decent on mine... what issues have you been having?

2015-09-03 16:36

Admins, yes, but the point is it does not work like it's supposed to. RIght now if I click on an article no matter what tab is activated it doesn't bring up the article. It just reloads the main page. That's what people are trying to tell you. Whether it's platform related, I have no idea.

edited to add, I take that back, now the first article loads when accessed with the Baseball tab activated, but not with the All tab activated.

Reply - Browns8625 - 9/3/15 4:38pm
Ohbokay, yes I was having that issue just starting today
Reply - admin - 9/3/15 4:48pm
ok. I now see that problem... I'm working on it... Thanks.
2015-09-03 16:09

For a social media focused platform you would think it would work better on a #Mobile.

2015-09-03 15:56

Re: click sport then pick article, you're right Ice, that works now. It didn't before. Clearly they are making ongoing tweaks today using the "live" site rather than tweaking a non-production version and only deploying it when they are satisfied that it works correctly. This practice does differ from what we're mostly used to, but to use a common phrase that my wife increasingly employs these days, "It is what it is." Klat is primarily a social media site that works according to it's own priorities and practices, and living with it is part and parcel of enjoying Doc's graciously provided site.

Reply - admin - 9/3/15 4:04pm
Just to clarify... All articles should appear on the 'All' selection. Then only baseball articles/chats appear on the baseball subdomain. Only football articles/chats appear on the football subdomain, etc.... The new menu changes the subdomain.
Reply - admin - 9/3/15 4:06pm
For writers of articles: If an article is created in the baseball subdomain, it appears in 'All' and 'Baseball'. Same for the other sports subdomains...
2015-09-03 15:07

Right now, it looks like you have to click the sport then pick the article.

Kind of absurd that you guys edit the production site while people are relying on it :-/

2015-09-03 14:34

Yup. Site is fully screwed at the moment

2015-09-03 13:06

I recall a similar line of reasoning earlier in the season when there were questions about why he wasnt called up then. Disappointing that he has not been able to fix it.

2015-09-03 11:41

Admins, FYI, now ALL articles when clicked on simply reload the main page.

2015-09-03 10:16

Re: "Tommy Gun" post, interesting that it only happens with that one article. Also, when I click on the "Active Threads" tab to see recent article comments, all the articles disappear. I provide this detail for the benefit of the admins.

Re: Divish and Montero, this certainly provides a rationale for a demotion allowing him to work on his swing, although you won't know if it's fixed until he's back up in a league where good fastballs are routine. Hopefully he can solve all this during the offseason, because when he's right he's productive with the bat. Also, hopefully, the M's staff are correct in their assessments.

2015-09-03 09:26

Divish with a note on the club's concern with Montero's swing:

"...there is some concern about the fundamentals of Montero’s swing, particularly the large dip of the head of the bat as he initiates his swing. That unnecessary movement slows down everything and leaves him behind on pitchers with quality fastballs. By instinct, Montero has to “cheat” on the fastball, starting the swing early. Pitchers recognize it and counter by throwing breaking stuff away when they are ahead. Why didn’t it affect him at Class AAA, where he hit .346 with 17 doubles, 6 triples, 16 home runs and 75 RBI with a .938 OPS? There is a lack of outstanding fastballs in the Pacific Coast League."

Reply - Browns8625 - 9/3/15 4:41pm
Also not as much intel in the minors. That's why they call it the bigs.. will be a tough adjustment
2015-09-03 08:43

Yup, same here

2015-09-03 05:10

The most recent post about the Mariner offense won't display for me...when I click on it, I get sent to a blank screen with the post selection slider again.

2015-09-03 05:06

Can't get Doc's latest article (Tommy Gun) to open on iPhone.

2015-09-03 04:25

Can't get Doc's latest article (Tommy Gun) to open on iPhone.

2015-09-02 22:55

I see more shouts disappeared.

2015-09-02 21:02

Too late to go on a run? :-)

2015-09-02 15:19

Montero's been slumping badly...so...not sure I blame the Mariners for not starting him.

2015-09-02 15:06

Apparently it wasn't Z who hated Montero...

2015-09-02 12:00

Sorry for the cut and paste tweets but the reactions from people that cover the team are interesting. One can feel their confusion. Witness: @CurtoWorld: Mariners option Jesus Montero to Tacoma. I believe this is first time they've sent a player down after Sept 1 in at least 17 years- not sure.

Reply - Browns8625 - 9/3/15 4:43pm
Not just them though, just odd timing for anyone to do. I also do not know if I have ever seen one team send as many guys down as the mariners have here the last cpl months
2015-09-02 11:44

@StoneLarry: When you send a guy down AFTER rosters expand, I'd say it doesn't bode well for his future in the organization.

2015-09-02 11:25

@RyanDivish: Hearing that the Mariners have optioned Jesus Montero back to Class AAA Tacoma for the last five games of Rainiers' season. The Mariners face a fair amount of right-handers till then.

2015-09-02 10:07

RH swing looks like it has a slow launch to me. batspeed OK, but not full of life or anything...this swing would make Choi a .260 hitter with a decent eye and no power from the right side. Maybe.

2015-09-02 08:52

YouTube video from a game where they talk about it and show two RH at bats. Silly M's - the guy wants to switch hit when he signs and they say no. He gets to AAA and THEN the org gives its blessing. I wish I was surprised by that.

Not the most dynamic RH swing I've seen but we've seen worse RH swings from guys in Mariner uniform this year. It's just bizarre. Given how rabid M's fans are about the minors, I'm surprised this hasn't received more commentary.

https://m.youtube.co...

2015-09-02 08:38

I read something from Curto on Choi and IIRC, it was Choi's idea. He wanted to try it in ST and they gave him their blessing...then came the suspension. It's curious that he's doing it...successfully thus far. I mean, small sample size, but he's been a terror since he came back switch hitting. 957 OPS with more pop (500 SLG).

2015-09-02 07:44

If the Mariners were the ones that told Choi to switch hit, it confirms their stupidity. If Choi decided to do that on his own, the Mariners need to order him to knock it off.

2015-09-02 05:40

Choi doesn't have significant splits against same handed pitching, so he doesn't need to switch hit. Either it's a practical joke , or someone hates me.

2015-09-01 20:15

With you on Kivlehan

2015-09-01 17:54

How odd is it that Choi came back from his suspension and all of a sudden, he's a switch hitter? I mean, I don't think I've ever heard of someone that started switch hitting at 24, let alone at the AAA level.

2015-09-01 17:35

I'd like to see Choi get called up. Boy could we have used an Olerud-lite bat this year. Get Kivlehan up here too... he seems to need some time to learn/adapt to a new level (though he learns fast). Might as well have him start the process this year.

2015-09-01 17:21

Zych has a gun... but I fear it is pretty close to straight arrow.

2015-09-01 16:42

I like Zych, actually...great AAA numbers based on an interesting pitch mix...possible sleeper?

2015-09-01 13:46

Thanks Griz. I highly approve of Romero and O'Malley getting shots. I love the versatility of O'Malley: Plays everywhere and brings a vL bat that is .330-.387-.450 this year and .340-.398-.489 last year. He can play on my team any day. A Bloomquist (versatility) with a decent bat.

2015-09-01 12:55

I still get excited for Elias starts.. am I alone? Really love his repetoire of pitches. When he is on he is on. Hopefully a better game in store from that last one. Think it was good for him overall coming back from Tacoma getting his feet wet. Hope he has a good game/ and can contribute in future

Reply - mickiholley - 9/1/15 1:19pm
Elias is fun to watch...when he is on his game. I think he will be steady.
2015-09-01 12:29

@shannondrayer: First wave of callups are here. Romero, O'Malley, Jose Ramirez and Tony Zych all in #Houston.

2015-09-01 10:46

Blash and yesterday's huge opposite field dinger: http://www.milb.com/...

Kivlehan is quick and simple to the ball: http://www.milb.com/...

Reply - Browns8625 - 9/1/15 12:39pm
Love that opposite field power
2015-09-01 10:35

That's where I am, Matt. He is significantly improved this year in terms of BA. He's hit a heck of a lot of homers in not very many AB's. He K's like Gorman Thomas in the majors, but Thomas only K'ed on 20% of his AAA AB's....not 33%! Thomas was .225-.324-.448 over his MLB years. OPS+ of 114. He hit .241 at AA but .291 in AAA (#Sacramento). Hit below .200 his 1st two significant years in the bigs. Then Thomas figured it out a bit. He was 27 before he was very successful. And that was after another full year stint in the PCL (after two years in the bigs). Blash doesn't have that kind of MiLB pedigree....but this year indicates some sort of plateau leap. Well, maybe. He's a bit of a long shot, But if he can hit .240 he's will be a finie player. Thomas has 4 seasons above .240 (.246, .244, .259, .245) in those seasons his OPS+ was 142, 138, 146 & 137. Thomas didn't really walk more in the minors that Blash has. At .240 Blash is a player, regardless of the K's. But .240 will be tough for him to hit, based on his large AAA K rate which is still above 30% even in this "plateau" year. He may not make contact often enough. Kingman was a productive player when he was north of .235, even early in his career. He was above .260 4 times and in those seasons he was a tremendous hitter. But he Ked in only about 25% of his AAA AB's. The TTO guy can be productive. Trumbo never has walked enough to be a true TTO (55 pts in AA/AAA & 50 pts in MLB) but he is a "similar" guy. When he's in the .240 range he's decently productive. However he only K'ed in about 24% of his AAA AB's. Blash is over the line, K-wise, but way over the line, in a good way, BB-wise. As such, he's a guy that will get a chance.

2015-09-01 09:05

K rate dooms almost everyone when north of 25% in the minors. I said ALMOST everyone. Decent walk rate says something a bit different...he merits a real look.

Reply - Browns8625 - 9/1/15 12:56pm
K rates food teams more than given credit for
2015-09-01 07:05

That's PA's....not (A's

2015-09-01 07:02

BTW (again): Down on the farm, Zunino is 7-12 in 3 games w/3 HR's. He likes AAA pitching! Blash has hit 32 HR's in 403 AA/AAA AB's this year. He's also walked 61 times (100 pts worth!!). But he's struck out 122 times in those 403 AB's. 22 of those HR's have come in his 194 AAA AB's. Wow!! He's a TTO guy. In 225 AAA (A's this year, he's HR-BB-K'ed 112 times....50%) He'll get a #Seattle look-see this year. The whiff rate will be scary (33% over his AAA career = what in the bigs?) but he can certainly ride the ball. Were he a .240-.320 guy with 30+ HR's he would be quite interesting. But, oh my, the K's!

2015-09-01 06:46

Endy Chavez's career vL OPS is .638. He hasn't been a MLB starter in decades, it seems. If you had a ++ bat at SS, like Tulo or classic Jeter (especially if they were a RHB), you could run Miller out there vL. But without some Miller improvement in that category it is unlikely that you use him without a platoon partner. We were using him with a partner at SS, remember. BTW: Marte is 1-17 over the last 4 games. Has anybody noticed if he is being pitched to differently? Has the league adjusted? No BB's in 3 of those games.

2015-09-01 06:25

More depth for LA to make a push. Rugg can play anywhere in outfield. I know Puig has been battling hammy issues.

2015-09-01 05:22

Mariners sell off Ruggiano for cash...

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