Rotation Free-for-All

The 6-10 starters beat the 1977 M's rotation

.

 

So, tactically, here's what SSI is watching for in March:

.

=== Jeremy Bonderman ===

Tactically, we're watching for a freshly-minted willingness to mix his pitches less predictably.

Bonderman probably has less "pitchability" than any starter in the major leagues, and he has the career ERA-xFIP to show for it.  

With his hard swerveball, and his dancing slider, he should have had a career ERA+ of 110.  Instead, it's been 90.  He's the Brandon League of starting pitchers, coming in with the same 2-0 and 3-1 pitches time after time.  He's always stubbornly refused to change .... but he's had two years away from the game, and maybe he's a listener now.

Who knows.  We're just telling you what we're watching for.

.

=== Jon Garland ===

He won 10-18 games a year, racking up 200 innings per, for what, the entire decade of the '00's?  With ERA's around 105-110.   He ran Joe Saunders peripherals from stem-to-stern ... Saunders has a 103 ERA+ liftime, compared to Garland's 104.  They both get 5 strikeouts, 2+ walks, average HR rate.  Garland has been, functionally, a tall, pretty, right hand Joe Saunders.

Garland's coming off almost two years out and shoulder surgery.  Supposing he came back 100% and gave you a second Joe Saunders.  Would you want that?

Well, a 105 ERA+ isn't much for a #2 starter.  It is boring for a #3 starter.  But it's one whale of a #4 starter, and it's a championship #5 starter.

The tactical question is easy.  Is he all the way back from shoulder surgery, not only in velocity but in pinpoint location.

.

=== Blake Beavan ===

Tactically:  does he now have a forkball?

Kidding.  Remember now, he's one of baseball's finest pitchers right up until the point where the ump calls strike two.  And then he can't put away a hitter if his mother's kitty cat depended on it.

A putaway pitch?  His career, never mind his 2013, will depend on it.  

It could happen.

.

=== The Big Four ===

Paxton:  the front knee and the decel.  Gordon has talked about the fact that the Gio's and Kershaw's of the game are welcome to walk 4-5 men as rookies, for any organization other than the Seattle Mariners.

But even Dr. D wants to see that decel smoothed out.  Who knows - maybe it was always just the injury in the knee?

.

Hultzen:  Just the release point.  

It could kick in at literally any moment.  Why?  Because he's had the release point before.  ANY GIVEN MORNING during the spring you could read in the paper, "Wow, Hultzen is throwing the stuffing out of the ball."  Or not.  If you do, then off we go.

.

Taijuan:  Tactically, there's probably nothing to watch for.  I'm sure he'd finish 2013 in the top 20 in the AL in earned run average, if allowed to do so.  And I can't imagine he wouldn't do more than any other pitcher to justify the 1-year deals on Morales, Morse and Saunders.

There was some discussion at BJOL this week about HOF-qualified Davey Johnson -- he took Dwight Gooden at what, age 18-19, and said "He's one of my five best starters.  He's in there."  We all have predilections; a person's attitude toward a Taijuan Walker situation becomes a litmus test for him.  It's a good way to gauge what your predilections are.

.

Erasmo:  we presume that he has to foul up royally to lose a spot.  Erasmo Ramirez is not known for fouling up royally.  Am looking forward to six most heinous years of Erasmage.

.

 

Klat Categories: 

Comments

Great thread, Doc.

If Z is all in for '13, and if bringing in a Bonderman or Garland is all about finding a couple of cheap 40% bets and hoping one comes in, then Big Foug guys have to be part of the battle plan. Assuming that ERAM is a lock, that means that some of the Big Three must be in, at least, the 2nd wave onto the '13 beachhead. And there's a chance they will be in the first wave.

OK, so we open with Felix, Saunders, Erasmo, Iwkuma and one of Bonderman/Garland/Beavan. Beavan is a fairly safe bet to be decent but if Bonderman and Garland are each less than 40% rolls (and I think that's fair) then you still have, at best, slightly less than 2 out of 3 shot that one of them is a rotation guy on April 1st. It could be a 15% shot, something like that. That means that you have to be considering a Big Three guy, even now. Assuming that one of those three guys shines more than Beavan in Arizona. Not a longshot bet. I'll lay money on that now.

I haven't seen much indication of that from Z/Sarge, but the thought that a Big Three guy just might break camp must be there. if 2013 is all about 2013 and not 2015 then they can't really afford to not consider that. If we're only 1/2 in in April and May, you many get 20 starts out of 4's and 5's before we make a Big Three call-up. If Beavan stumbles then there could be a hole in that plan.

10 starts from a gouged Garland or Bombed Beavan or Blasted Bonderman may dig you a deep and early '13 hole.

Then the All In in '13 strategy collapses.

All In means just that Z. Make your move.

moe

1

M's Watcher's picture

M's Watcher

Bonderman/Garland/Beavan may be just spaghetti for the rotation. I like giving the first two a chance to come back to the bigs, even if they end up playing for another team. The Bonderman/League reference is scary, and Garland could eat innings if healthy. Many forget that Beavan also ate innings in 2012, ~150 in Seattle and ~40 in Tacoma. I look forward to the prospects of one or more of the kids pitching great innings, not just eating innings. That's when the real fun starts.

2

zzdawg's picture

zzdawg

My hunch is two that will come through are Beavan and Smoak. Both get no love, but both are still young. Smoak worked out hard this offseason and I have this feeling he will break out. Beavan will never be a #2, but if these changes work in making his flat fastball not so flat, he could easily be a #3. Or a nice piece in a blockbuster trade. A successful Beavan, another starter and 2 good bullpen pitchers are a great place to start for a megabat trade with a few years of team control.

4

Filtered HTML

  • Web page addresses and e-mail addresses turn into links automatically.
  • Allowed HTML tags: <a> <em> <strong> <cite> <blockquote> <ul> <ol> <li> <i> <b> <img> <table> <tr> <td> <th> <div> <strong> <p> <br> <u>
  • Lines and paragraphs break automatically.
By submitting this form, you accept the Mollom privacy policy.

Shoutbox

Please log in or create an account to post shouts.
phxterryMoe - I am beginning to doubt if the M's Brain Trust is ever going to promote Triunfel, whose highest and best use seems to be infield utility player. If the M's were planning on making him an infield utility player in the bigs, wouldn't they be playing him some at 3B right now in Tacoma? Because for sure, the M's Brass does not envisage Triunfel as a future full-time SS in the bigs. Just my random thought.10 min 56 sec ago
phxterryPreachin to the choir, Moe, what can I say that hasn't already been said.17 min 47 sec ago
phxterryOK - matt - just my gallows humor. Glad to see that you and I agree that Wedgie is not a good enough manager to be re-signed for next year so we don't have to beat that dead horse any more.19 min 39 sec ago
moethedogIf the M's are making no positional changes in the 25-Man, per baker, then we're all in on Ryan as a SS and letting Ackley hack his way to his former self. I would think that we've decided that we can enhance Ryan's trade value by playing him every day and hoping that by the AS game somebody will need a great glove .200 hitting SS. It is highly unlikely that he is back with us next year. I think we over estimate his real baseball world value. All the same, moving Andino, sho has no real baseball workd value for Franklin still makes sense. Giving Franklin 4 starts a week at this level is much better for his development than 6 starts a week in Tacoma. You could give him two starts at SS, one at 2B and one as a DH vs. RHP without denting Ryan's trade-in value, as it were. throw in the odd 3B start for him and you would still be allowing Ackley to hack his way to health. You just might find that Franklin can mash a bit, too. Alas. Sigh. Go team.24 min 58 sec ago
SABR MattAlright Terry...take it easy man...your fun facts are about as fun as a root canal. :)49 min 41 sec ago
phxterryM's Fun Fact: July 13 is Dustin Ackley night at the Safe. Rumor has it that gift being handed out is a bat that fits perfectly on your shoulder and never moves.50 min 26 sec ago
phxterryPer Baker, no more changes to 25 man roster for now. Perhaps pitching change in a couple of days, but no changes in position players planned. So we get to enjoy the futility of Dustin Ackley & the veteran goodness that is Andino for a while longer. No signs of urgency coming from the M's Brain Trust .... I personally would be happy if I never saw Andino, Bay, Chavez & Rauuuul play in Mariner uniforms again. I'd rather watch Franklin, Triunfel, Thames, Liddi & Peguero. Let the Wookies Play!1 hour 21 min ago
moethedogThe fact that the 40-man move will be made tomorrow is interesting. If it is a straight waiver move, what will we know tomorrow that we don't know today? Martinez or Vinnie Cat or Pegs or Harang aren't morphing into something else overnight. But if we have a trade in the works, then 24 hours gives you time to ink the deal. Worth pondering......2 hours 48 min ago
Bat571I tend to agree, Spec, but with just the slight hope that Peguero's worked hard enough to turn it around. Giving it one more shot while also trying to shake things up a bit doesn't seem all that bad an idea to me. Then if he goes down (literally) swinging, it would be without regret.3 hours 56 min ago
SpectatorI, personally, don't care if C-Peg is claimed. i don't think he has major-league value. And if we need OF insurance, I like Abe Almonte. I think F.Martinez would be claimed as well, and that wouldn't break my heart, but I do think some team would grab him and stick him on their 40-man. Z might finally be ready to do that, but I don't think it's easy for him. Apparently they won't be announcing the 40-man move until tomorrow.4 hours 3 min ago
Bat571As to pitching, I think it rides on how Bonderman does tonight. Beaven has pitched better each outing since going down, so it will be either Bonderman if he shows 7-8 inning stuff, or Blake coming up to replace Harang by next Monday/Tuesday's start4 hours 4 min ago
Bat571Then if Peguero can't keep his Ks reasonable, he's had his chance and we move on - but it looks to me as if he's made a real effort to improve and ought to get a chance - and if he and Morse could get something going it would be fun to watch.4 hours 15 min ago
Bat571I'd sign Chavez to a "somewhat high" deal ($2.0mil / 2 yrs??) so that he would no longer be viewed as "free" if he were to go on waivers to go to Tacoma. He's a dandy 4th/5th OF who contributes pretty steadily, if never powerfully, and seems to like it here. He might be willing to accept assignment knowing what the score is. Then I'd try to get him through after a flurry of claims have other teams sorting out their own rosters, like right now. Then I'd call up Peguero until Guti is ready to come back. Saunders is doing fine in CF, and both Bay and Pegs could play in an emergency until Endy could come back up, but Pegs has his K% rate down to 26.4% (lower than Thames or Liddi, BTW) and we need some vitality and more thump. Peguero and Franklin for now, with Tenbrink and Romero told to keep it up and they're next.4 hours 19 min ago
SABR MattI think someone would claim Peguero...and we might need him to back up at CF if something happens to Chavez...so no, I would not DFA Pegs...I'd DFA Martinez.4 hours 45 min ago
SpectatorDrayer says I'm wrong and it won't be Harang or Andino, but someone in the minors. In theory they could move Hultzen to the 60-day since he's already been out 30+ days and hasn't started throwing yet. Or, as others have suggested, F.Martinez or Catricala could be cut. I'd kiss off Carlos Peguero myself. Guess we'll see.5 hours 11 min ago
SABR MattThat is officer thinking there G. Sucre is the perfect transition back-up catcher for that reason. You can drop Martinez off the roster to make room...then DFA Andino and calll up Franklin soon...after which you would DFA Harang and call up Bonderman6 hours 29 min ago
moethedogAbsolutely G. Give him the 1st Maurer start. Get his feet wet.6 hours 42 min ago
Gordon GrossSucre's caught Paxton, Walker, Maurer and Hultzen over the last year. We could do worse than promote an actual backup catcher with experience dealing with the Pitchers of the Future and who can throw a dude out.6 hours 52 min ago
blissedj"A bat-first DH/1B who can catch in a pinch has lots of value." Yes, would love a Mike Napoli on our team!6 hours 53 min ago
moethedogNot much pop for Sucre: In his last 600 AA/AAA AB's hes had 20 doubles and 2 homers. But he's thrown out 52%, 44% and 37% the last 3 years. Congrats to him. It's a funny move to not do alongside releasing Andino, which was a more immediate need. Perhaps that is next. Montero will probably not catch much more down there than he did here. It's an interesting dilemma. W/O lots of reps, he will never become a full-time MLB catcher. he won't get those reps with Zunino in the same house, nor should he. He should focus on the bat. A bat-first DH/1B who can catch in a pinch has lots of value.6 hours 59 min ago