M's Accused of Desperation

And Jay-Z releases some chill tracks

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Jemanji:  Zduriencik looks kind of shrill this winter.  And who could blame him.  If he has decided it's time to stop playing for two years from now, it's okay by me.

Buster Olney, quoted by Grizzly:  Olney says that "industry rivals" view the M's as desperate this winter. That's a little frightening - we saw what happened the last time the M's had a front office in "desperation" mode.  Safe to say those "industry rivals" know a lot more about Jack's mindset and how frantic the club is than we netizens do.

Silentpadna:  Grizzly, I don't think it's safe to say that at all. Industry rivals are known to say things specifically for public consumption. If I'm GM of the Rangers and I sense the M's are about to make any serious in-roads, I might plant a suggestion like that into the rumor mill. That's a big part of the game these days.

Jemanji:  That's part of the game for sure, but I wonder whether savvy GM's aren't looking at Zunino, the Napoli visit, the calls the M's are making to everybody up to and including Randy Johnson, and seriously wondering whether Zduriencik's under the gun.

Zduriencik:  quoted by Baker, trying (um, desperately) to defuse the situation.

“We have some money available, but we’ve also spent some money already,” Zduriencik said. “Some of our arbitration cases are going to take some of that away, the recent signing of (Hisashi) Iwakuma is going to take a little bit away, as well as Oliver Perez. And the other thing that ties into this, in a lot of these sigings that you do, somethimes there are incentives attached. So, you have to budget for the incentives that players could make as well. But just to do a singing to do a singing, I don’t think would be the right thing to do. If it makes sense and it’s what you’re looking for then certainly you have to entertain that and certainly go down every avenue that you can.

The Mariners are obligated to around $2M in potential incentives for 2013.  The Mariners only have five veterans total who are owed anything whatsoever beyond arbitration awards.  Felix can earn $350,000 if he wins EVERYTHING including Cy Young, Gold Glove, and playoff MVP.  Gutierrez can win $50,000 for a Gold Glove.  Ryan can earn $0.75M for 600 plate appearances.  And Ackley's got some incentives.  So yeah, maybe that $2M means that the budget is real cramped, despite what the team president just said about how he wants Josh Hamilton pretty bad.

The line about incentives blows the cover for my man Z.  He's definitely doing damage control here.

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But I do think we’re kind of in a really unique spot here because I think that for the last several years we’ve been trying to put this whole thing together where we’re very young at the big league level, as you guys know. We’re now going to be sittig with — if some of these players don’t make our big league club — we’re going to be sitting with a lot of players on the AAA club a phone call away. And my guess would be several of them, if they don’t make the club out of spring training, we’re going to see another nice group of kids get to the big leagues.

Yeah, we like our kids.  Don't assume we need your player over there in Kansas City or Miami.

Right.  After four years of watching the current kids come up and struggle, Zduriencik's now going to want to re-rack with another set of kids who will come in with 0 AB's and 0 IP's?

Dr. D has nothing against damage control.  He just doesn't expect rival GM's to have a lot of problems seeing through the protests.  They are evidently taken aback by the full-court press that is being applied by a team that does not usually play full court.

Deal with it.  A lot of teams are aggressive in the offseason.  It's weird only in Seattle.

BABVA,

Dr D

Klat Categories: 

Comments

Since all young, able prospects must NOT go at any price. I mean, there are some WEIRD value ideas out there. At this blog, for instance, there are the following quotes by the writer and commenters about a deal between KC and Seattle:

Paxton:  "It’s no doubt a project but he might be a throw in with a later name mentioned as he’s probably a season or two from being MLB ready."

Maurer: " Another throw in candidate..."

Grab bag: "Gets down to how you value prospects relative to established major leaguers. I think Gordon should return at least Hultzen, Ramirez, Walker, and a couple of A-ball lottery picks." 

o.O

I would rather trade a bowl of artichoke dip for Mark Reynolds than trade Hultzen, Walker, E-Ram AND a couple of low minors guys for the right to employ Alex Gordon.  He's not Miguel Cabrera, sheesh. 

If we're trying to win now and we're gonna do it all with young pitching, then Walker is probably the most expendable of the Big Three.  If we can't sign a bat in FA and use some money on another pitcher, then maybe it's Paxton or Hultzen.

But pieces held too long lose value, especially pitchers.  Jack has to maximize the value of the young kids to us while actually WINNING SOMETHING.  Anything, really, but preferrably bringing us at least a Wild Card chase.  And I'm sure he's under pressure/orders to do just that.

Throwing all the kids overboard a la Bavasi is not likely to be his style, but you never know.

I just hope. ;-)  Chasing a pennant with the most talented kids in your arsenal is still pursuit (see: Oakland 2012).  Praying for good years with Beavan, Cust, Olivo, etc... that's not pursuit.

If we deploy Paxton, Hultzen, E-Ram, The Pen O' Death, Zunino, Montero, Franklin, etc?  I'll consider that a chase engaged, regardless of their struggles. If we trade some of them for a Gordon type and go with Napoli over/alongside Montero? Also pursuit.

But it'll be hard to convince me we're truly chasing anything meaningful if the best and brightest talents remain on the farm, and we don't have bright talents blocking their major league path.  THAT's what I'm waiting to find out from Zduriencik.

~G

 

 

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They don't care how much they lose, as long as they don't get humiliated by, heaven forbid, somebody bluffing them with a bad hand.

There are Seattleites who don't care how lousy their analysis is as long as, heaven forbid, nobody ever calls them a homer.

Paxton as a throw-in?  Without the slightest rancor, that is truly a remark that rules you outside the category of serious analyst.  That's like me commenting on hockey.

..........

The article you quote seems to come out of KC, so I guess it's a little more excusable to call a top-20 prospect a throw-in.  But I've seen some stuff on Seattle blogs that wasn't a lot better.

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We've got young, incredibly talented players at the front of the line. You can't wait for them to look like Willie Mays or Bob Gibson 2 or 3 years running at AAA. You have to roll them out onto Safeco and say, "Go get 'em kid!" Some will struggle, but they will figure it out. If they don't, then you know what you have.

I'm a bit frustrated by the common view that what we have is a bunch of young trade fodder. Getting three years of Gordon for 3 first class arms is an example of that.

"Go get 'em, kid," is indeed chasing a pennant for real. This one or the next one..

I think Z has shown a bit of desperateness, if all the rumors are true. The coomment above is the first one I've seen where he seems to buy in on going with youth, to some degree. Good for him, finally.

If we make a trade, offer up Walker (or somebody Walker-esque) and a young IF and get a bat. If we don't, then let's play the kids, Liddi included. Get Hultzen and Franklin in the rotation soon, Zunino up quick, get Romero to play LF if he's 3B blocked by Seager, get Franklin on the field....and play ball.

We have an incredible stockpile of blue chip prospects. They ain't all trade fodder. Use 'em.

moe

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I hope that Jack isn't under the LincStrong pressure to do something for the sake of doing something. He's saying the right words but his actions will be telling. With the winter meetings on the near horizon, it won't be long until we know how deperate the org really is. The desperation thing could just be agents trying to play up the M's interest in their clients.

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Sounds like Z is already trying to soften the blow of another bargain-bin offseason. Bummer. However, I would think that he may be relieved not to have to sign off on a Hamilton/Swisher/Grienke add with which he is much less than comfortable.

Trades are the area in which Z is most widely regarded to excel. Trades, typically, don't cost very much cash compared to signing FA and I would expect that, if Z really is feeling the heat to improve the club, he would devote the bulk of his energies there.

It sounds like Z is having to accommodate the ownership's wish to emulate the Rays, as much as possible. Sadly, a Felix extension and a trade for a corner OF prospect is all I expect this offseason.

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bsf's picture

bsf

... and a pitcher would be nice. The pitcher doesn't even need to be the top of the market . A two-year stopgap will be sufficient to make us better in the short term. The long term will be covered by the farm. Danny Haren comes to mind. Yes, please hit a grounder to the best SS in the game.

One good hitter is important. And I think Z knows that. Better FA than trade though, in my opinion. There's nobody worth risking the farm for currently available. And next year most of the kids will have even more trade value, because at least Hultzen and Little Nicky will have seen the light of the show, and everyone else is one year closer.

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DaddyOSome of the MLB coverage is delayed, but ROOT Sports is broadcasting live Wed/Thu of next week, and then three weekday games the following week.8 hours 5 min ago
okdanShannon Drayer has some cool video up of Patrick Kivlehan, Jordy Lara, and D.J. Peterson taking BP down in Peoria. Just BP of course, but my initial reactions are: Kivlehan looks athletic but a little jumpy at the plate. Lara looks like he could be a beast, big kid. DJ looks patient and cool as a cucumber, like a 10 year vet in the box. Check it out here: http://mynorthwest.com/374/2718894/Video-Mariners-prospects-hit-against-lefty-starter-Happ8 hours 10 min ago
SABR MattCorrect...MLB.TV's spring schedule shows us getting coverage on the 4th, 5th, 6th, 9th, 11th, 13th, 15th, 18th, 20th, 22nd etc...regional sports network new deal must have included expanded ST coverage. Usually we don't get anything until the 15th or so and then only 6 games all spring.8 hours 33 min ago
DaddyOIIRC, usually it's not 'til the middle of spring training that we begin to see TV broadcasts.8 hours 36 min ago
DaddyOOn the M's official website here: http://seattle.mariners.mlb.com/schedule/broadcast/index.jsp?c_id=sea8 hours 37 min ago
SABR MattWhere did you see that?9 hours 44 sec ago
DaddyOAm I seeing this right? The M's are starting to televise spring games right away, starting with next Wednesday and Thursdays games games against the Padres.10 hours 58 min ago
SABR MattMoe...SS is a weakness until someone actually does produce. Neither Miller nor Taylor has proven anything12 hours 51 min ago
MtGrizzlyAssuming Weeks can play LF, the bench puts a pretty decent floor on the current roster. The platoon advantages can help cover for under performance a bit. It's curious - individually, I don't really llike Weeks, Bloomquist or Ruggiano but as an ensemble, I think they kind of work.22 hours 24 min ago
moethedogNo weakness at SS. One of those guys will produce.23 hours 2 min ago
SABR MattSo I see the Mariner offense as having three major ?s SS, LF and 1B. I don't much care for Zunino's chances of being awesome in 2015 either but we don't need him to kill it to be a hero. We need better than we got from SS in 2014 and we definitely need production in LF and at 1B. But of those questionmarks, we have solid possible replacements lined up at 1B (Montero, Peterson, Kivlehan) and SS (Taylor, Marte)...where we are weakest is LF (Kivlehan, Romero)...but there are a lot of teams who would enjoy that sort of weakness in depth.1 day 6 hours ago
moethedogDead on Matt. Just posted that I absolutely expect one of the Montero/Kivlehan/Deej/Romero quartet to mash there way into the lineup. Which one? Don't know. But those 4 rolls of the dice are more likely to be a natural than the one roll of LoMo (or Ackley). BTW, if one of you guys has a voodoo doll, could you get a little mojo going for a Bloomquist hammy pull?1 day 8 hours ago
SABR MattMoneyball thought - did the Mariners intentionally leave 1B open because it's pretty easy (theoretically) to work a prospect or platoon bat in there when he's hitting enough to merit the call? The media is talking about how big of a gamble it is for Seattle to count on Logan Morrison. I see five guys queued up in line behind him with a legit chance to be productive: Montero, Weeks, Kivlehan, Peterson, Romero.1 day 8 hours ago
benihanaI'm with you Matt. I kind of want the M's to trade Taylor, Lomo, and Ramirez for Fielder and some $$. What a murderer's row would Cano, Cruz, Fielder, and Seager make?2 days 1 hour ago
DaddyORight re: underground drip irrigation. That's what I was referring to. If you are spending $125 million on ballplayers every year you would think it would be worth it to protect that investment even if it costs a million dollars a year. I dunno, maybe I'm wrong here.2 days 2 hours ago
SABR MattFWIW, I bet 37 roto dollars on Prince Fielder this year. I think he will have a good year2 days 2 hours ago
mojicianHamilton would have been the biggest bust in the history of Seattle. They would have run the entire Z regime out on a rail for 2014 Hamilton performance alone. It says here if you are going to have a star, he should have great makeup. I think Fielder will bounce back. His game wasn't dependent on being a yoga instructor. What he has are large muscles and a disciplined plate approach, see Papi, Big. Fat guys rake.2 days 3 hours ago
SpectatorAnd how about Z whiffing on Hamilton and Prince Fielder before connecting on Cano, the only one who looks to hold his superstar value? Balance of power in the West could turn on those three contracts.2 days 4 hours ago
SABR MattYep...Taylor would probably go to AAA so that Lloyd could have his cheerleader on the bench not begging for PT and Taylor could work on his plate discipline.2 days 4 hours ago
SpectatorLloyd says if Bloomie healthy, then Miller and Taylor won't both make roster. At least that's their plan at the moment.2 days 5 hours ago