M's Accused of Desperation

And Jay-Z releases some chill tracks

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Jemanji:  Zduriencik looks kind of shrill this winter.  And who could blame him.  If he has decided it's time to stop playing for two years from now, it's okay by me.

Buster Olney, quoted by Grizzly:  Olney says that "industry rivals" view the M's as desperate this winter. That's a little frightening - we saw what happened the last time the M's had a front office in "desperation" mode.  Safe to say those "industry rivals" know a lot more about Jack's mindset and how frantic the club is than we netizens do.

Silentpadna:  Grizzly, I don't think it's safe to say that at all. Industry rivals are known to say things specifically for public consumption. If I'm GM of the Rangers and I sense the M's are about to make any serious in-roads, I might plant a suggestion like that into the rumor mill. That's a big part of the game these days.

Jemanji:  That's part of the game for sure, but I wonder whether savvy GM's aren't looking at Zunino, the Napoli visit, the calls the M's are making to everybody up to and including Randy Johnson, and seriously wondering whether Zduriencik's under the gun.

Zduriencik:  quoted by Baker, trying (um, desperately) to defuse the situation.

“We have some money available, but we’ve also spent some money already,” Zduriencik said. “Some of our arbitration cases are going to take some of that away, the recent signing of (Hisashi) Iwakuma is going to take a little bit away, as well as Oliver Perez. And the other thing that ties into this, in a lot of these sigings that you do, somethimes there are incentives attached. So, you have to budget for the incentives that players could make as well. But just to do a singing to do a singing, I don’t think would be the right thing to do. If it makes sense and it’s what you’re looking for then certainly you have to entertain that and certainly go down every avenue that you can.

The Mariners are obligated to around $2M in potential incentives for 2013.  The Mariners only have five veterans total who are owed anything whatsoever beyond arbitration awards.  Felix can earn $350,000 if he wins EVERYTHING including Cy Young, Gold Glove, and playoff MVP.  Gutierrez can win $50,000 for a Gold Glove.  Ryan can earn $0.75M for 600 plate appearances.  And Ackley's got some incentives.  So yeah, maybe that $2M means that the budget is real cramped, despite what the team president just said about how he wants Josh Hamilton pretty bad.

The line about incentives blows the cover for my man Z.  He's definitely doing damage control here.

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But I do think we’re kind of in a really unique spot here because I think that for the last several years we’ve been trying to put this whole thing together where we’re very young at the big league level, as you guys know. We’re now going to be sittig with — if some of these players don’t make our big league club — we’re going to be sitting with a lot of players on the AAA club a phone call away. And my guess would be several of them, if they don’t make the club out of spring training, we’re going to see another nice group of kids get to the big leagues.

Yeah, we like our kids.  Don't assume we need your player over there in Kansas City or Miami.

Right.  After four years of watching the current kids come up and struggle, Zduriencik's now going to want to re-rack with another set of kids who will come in with 0 AB's and 0 IP's?

Dr. D has nothing against damage control.  He just doesn't expect rival GM's to have a lot of problems seeing through the protests.  They are evidently taken aback by the full-court press that is being applied by a team that does not usually play full court.

Deal with it.  A lot of teams are aggressive in the offseason.  It's weird only in Seattle.

BABVA,

Dr D

Klat Categories: 

Comments

Since all young, able prospects must NOT go at any price. I mean, there are some WEIRD value ideas out there. At this blog, for instance, there are the following quotes by the writer and commenters about a deal between KC and Seattle:

Paxton:  "It’s no doubt a project but he might be a throw in with a later name mentioned as he’s probably a season or two from being MLB ready."

Maurer: " Another throw in candidate..."

Grab bag: "Gets down to how you value prospects relative to established major leaguers. I think Gordon should return at least Hultzen, Ramirez, Walker, and a couple of A-ball lottery picks." 

o.O

I would rather trade a bowl of artichoke dip for Mark Reynolds than trade Hultzen, Walker, E-Ram AND a couple of low minors guys for the right to employ Alex Gordon.  He's not Miguel Cabrera, sheesh. 

If we're trying to win now and we're gonna do it all with young pitching, then Walker is probably the most expendable of the Big Three.  If we can't sign a bat in FA and use some money on another pitcher, then maybe it's Paxton or Hultzen.

But pieces held too long lose value, especially pitchers.  Jack has to maximize the value of the young kids to us while actually WINNING SOMETHING.  Anything, really, but preferrably bringing us at least a Wild Card chase.  And I'm sure he's under pressure/orders to do just that.

Throwing all the kids overboard a la Bavasi is not likely to be his style, but you never know.

I just hope. ;-)  Chasing a pennant with the most talented kids in your arsenal is still pursuit (see: Oakland 2012).  Praying for good years with Beavan, Cust, Olivo, etc... that's not pursuit.

If we deploy Paxton, Hultzen, E-Ram, The Pen O' Death, Zunino, Montero, Franklin, etc?  I'll consider that a chase engaged, regardless of their struggles. If we trade some of them for a Gordon type and go with Napoli over/alongside Montero? Also pursuit.

But it'll be hard to convince me we're truly chasing anything meaningful if the best and brightest talents remain on the farm, and we don't have bright talents blocking their major league path.  THAT's what I'm waiting to find out from Zduriencik.

~G

 

 

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They don't care how much they lose, as long as they don't get humiliated by, heaven forbid, somebody bluffing them with a bad hand.

There are Seattleites who don't care how lousy their analysis is as long as, heaven forbid, nobody ever calls them a homer.

Paxton as a throw-in?  Without the slightest rancor, that is truly a remark that rules you outside the category of serious analyst.  That's like me commenting on hockey.

..........

The article you quote seems to come out of KC, so I guess it's a little more excusable to call a top-20 prospect a throw-in.  But I've seen some stuff on Seattle blogs that wasn't a lot better.

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We've got young, incredibly talented players at the front of the line. You can't wait for them to look like Willie Mays or Bob Gibson 2 or 3 years running at AAA. You have to roll them out onto Safeco and say, "Go get 'em kid!" Some will struggle, but they will figure it out. If they don't, then you know what you have.

I'm a bit frustrated by the common view that what we have is a bunch of young trade fodder. Getting three years of Gordon for 3 first class arms is an example of that.

"Go get 'em, kid," is indeed chasing a pennant for real. This one or the next one..

I think Z has shown a bit of desperateness, if all the rumors are true. The coomment above is the first one I've seen where he seems to buy in on going with youth, to some degree. Good for him, finally.

If we make a trade, offer up Walker (or somebody Walker-esque) and a young IF and get a bat. If we don't, then let's play the kids, Liddi included. Get Hultzen and Franklin in the rotation soon, Zunino up quick, get Romero to play LF if he's 3B blocked by Seager, get Franklin on the field....and play ball.

We have an incredible stockpile of blue chip prospects. They ain't all trade fodder. Use 'em.

moe

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I hope that Jack isn't under the LincStrong pressure to do something for the sake of doing something. He's saying the right words but his actions will be telling. With the winter meetings on the near horizon, it won't be long until we know how deperate the org really is. The desperation thing could just be agents trying to play up the M's interest in their clients.

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Sounds like Z is already trying to soften the blow of another bargain-bin offseason. Bummer. However, I would think that he may be relieved not to have to sign off on a Hamilton/Swisher/Grienke add with which he is much less than comfortable.

Trades are the area in which Z is most widely regarded to excel. Trades, typically, don't cost very much cash compared to signing FA and I would expect that, if Z really is feeling the heat to improve the club, he would devote the bulk of his energies there.

It sounds like Z is having to accommodate the ownership's wish to emulate the Rays, as much as possible. Sadly, a Felix extension and a trade for a corner OF prospect is all I expect this offseason.

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bsf's picture

bsf

... and a pitcher would be nice. The pitcher doesn't even need to be the top of the market . A two-year stopgap will be sufficient to make us better in the short term. The long term will be covered by the farm. Danny Haren comes to mind. Yes, please hit a grounder to the best SS in the game.

One good hitter is important. And I think Z knows that. Better FA than trade though, in my opinion. There's nobody worth risking the farm for currently available. And next year most of the kids will have even more trade value, because at least Hultzen and Little Nicky will have seen the light of the show, and everyone else is one year closer.

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mojicianThe Mariners can usually put up a three spot on Jared Weaver. That should do it for a Felix start.29 min 39 sec ago
MtGrizzlyLooks like the Angels are resting a number of their regulars tonight. If Felix can't beat the Angels 'B' squad, they aught to shut him down.33 min 42 sec ago
SABR MattIf we don't win tonight with King Felix on the hill...that's not going to go over well in the Mariner clubhouse. We have to have this one...the As are absolutely REELING...time to track them down.3 hours 40 min ago
DaddyOTonight's game feels like a "must win" at this point. While technically not true, you hate to count on a multiple teams ahead of you losing more games than they win while you win more games than you lose. Felix has not been at the top of his game lately, and he needs to be for this one. Then again, Paxton was at the top of HIS game last night and it still didn't matter.4 hours 49 min ago
Tacoma Rainso the M's incredible bullpen has given up 5 of the 15 earned runs Paxton has given up this year... Maybe James needs to learn how to argue better with Lloyd15 hours 21 min ago
Gordon GrossWe've now lost 3 Paxton starts since he came back in August where he has given up zero or 1 runs through 6 innings. Add that to the abysmal Felix losses or NDs in his UQ starts... man, with a half decent O we'd have won a hundred games. Maybe next year. Cuz of course our pitching will stay this dominant...15 hours 38 min ago
Tacoma RainHarold and rest of MLB TV experts are questioning removing Paxton loudly - even saying that they could see the relief in the Angels dugout when Paxton was getting pulled16 hours 22 min ago
rick82To pick up on Gordon's comment, perhaps they should award the Cy Young to all starters who faced the M's these season. Hector Noesi can accept the award for the entire ensemble. That would be fitting.16 hours 32 min ago
rick82Maybe Elias spooked him. He didn't want to lose another young lefty. But one more batter was in order. James earned that. Oh well, you can't win if you can't score.16 hours 58 min ago
Tacoma RainI was very unhappy Rick with the decision.... and I am not getting any better with time17 hours 3 min ago
moethedogNice pitching change, Skip.17 hours 17 min ago
rick82Should have let him finish the inning. I know that's obvious now, but how many of you were thinking the same thing when Lloyd pulled him?17 hours 17 min ago
Gordon GrossObservations as of the 7th inning: 1) James Paxton remains as maliciously and casually devastating as I have always believed him to be. 2)The Ms offense as a whole has apparently faced it's 97th Cy Young candidate on the year. 3) Smoak's 647th career fat meatball that he turned into a can of corn with runners on made me say inappropriate (or perhaps very appropriate) things to the TV. 4) Denorfia is a bad human being, or at least a terrible fielder of baseballs in a playoff race that can't afford any more games to be given away with moronic gaffes.17 hours 24 min ago
DaddyOTough, TOUGH break for Paxton on the ball misplayed by Denorfia. He has looked as good as any pitcher I've ever seen. C.J. Wilson is throwing a gem himself.17 hours 25 min ago
MtGrizzlyWhen Paxton has his curve working for him, he's lethal.18 hours 16 min ago
OBFBlech I don't like the lineup today... Is Hart injured again or something? Is Romero is the dog house now or something? Of course as I am typing Smoak gets the first base hit... String em together boys!18 hours 28 min ago
OBFMan.... Paxton may be better than Unit, King, Moyer, EVERYONE when all is said and done... 98 MPH UP in the zone from a lefty, 93 mph cutter boring in on the righties, a knuckle curve for gimmie strikes and a changeup that after some refinement will rival The Royal Change... You Go Paxton! Now lets score him a couple runs!!!18 hours 32 min ago
Gordon GrossNice writeup on Cano and the Ms by national writer and local homer Caple: http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/11539289/mlb-robinson-cano-impact-seattle-mariners-improvement1 day 7 min ago
SABR MattI think we just need to take some mood stabilizing drugs (myself included) and enjoy the ride...LOL1 day 4 hours ago
DaddyOIf we do this, I can pretty much guarantee we will not only make the playoffs, we will win the whole enchilada!1 day 5 hours ago