M's Accused of Desperation

And Jay-Z releases some chill tracks

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Jemanji:  Zduriencik looks kind of shrill this winter.  And who could blame him.  If he has decided it's time to stop playing for two years from now, it's okay by me.

Buster Olney, quoted by Grizzly:  Olney says that "industry rivals" view the M's as desperate this winter. That's a little frightening - we saw what happened the last time the M's had a front office in "desperation" mode.  Safe to say those "industry rivals" know a lot more about Jack's mindset and how frantic the club is than we netizens do.

Silentpadna:  Grizzly, I don't think it's safe to say that at all. Industry rivals are known to say things specifically for public consumption. If I'm GM of the Rangers and I sense the M's are about to make any serious in-roads, I might plant a suggestion like that into the rumor mill. That's a big part of the game these days.

Jemanji:  That's part of the game for sure, but I wonder whether savvy GM's aren't looking at Zunino, the Napoli visit, the calls the M's are making to everybody up to and including Randy Johnson, and seriously wondering whether Zduriencik's under the gun.

Zduriencik:  quoted by Baker, trying (um, desperately) to defuse the situation.

“We have some money available, but we’ve also spent some money already,” Zduriencik said. “Some of our arbitration cases are going to take some of that away, the recent signing of (Hisashi) Iwakuma is going to take a little bit away, as well as Oliver Perez. And the other thing that ties into this, in a lot of these sigings that you do, somethimes there are incentives attached. So, you have to budget for the incentives that players could make as well. But just to do a singing to do a singing, I don’t think would be the right thing to do. If it makes sense and it’s what you’re looking for then certainly you have to entertain that and certainly go down every avenue that you can.

The Mariners are obligated to around $2M in potential incentives for 2013.  The Mariners only have five veterans total who are owed anything whatsoever beyond arbitration awards.  Felix can earn $350,000 if he wins EVERYTHING including Cy Young, Gold Glove, and playoff MVP.  Gutierrez can win $50,000 for a Gold Glove.  Ryan can earn $0.75M for 600 plate appearances.  And Ackley's got some incentives.  So yeah, maybe that $2M means that the budget is real cramped, despite what the team president just said about how he wants Josh Hamilton pretty bad.

The line about incentives blows the cover for my man Z.  He's definitely doing damage control here.

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But I do think we’re kind of in a really unique spot here because I think that for the last several years we’ve been trying to put this whole thing together where we’re very young at the big league level, as you guys know. We’re now going to be sittig with — if some of these players don’t make our big league club — we’re going to be sitting with a lot of players on the AAA club a phone call away. And my guess would be several of them, if they don’t make the club out of spring training, we’re going to see another nice group of kids get to the big leagues.

Yeah, we like our kids.  Don't assume we need your player over there in Kansas City or Miami.

Right.  After four years of watching the current kids come up and struggle, Zduriencik's now going to want to re-rack with another set of kids who will come in with 0 AB's and 0 IP's?

Dr. D has nothing against damage control.  He just doesn't expect rival GM's to have a lot of problems seeing through the protests.  They are evidently taken aback by the full-court press that is being applied by a team that does not usually play full court.

Deal with it.  A lot of teams are aggressive in the offseason.  It's weird only in Seattle.

BABVA,

Dr D

Klat Categories: 

Comments

Since all young, able prospects must NOT go at any price. I mean, there are some WEIRD value ideas out there. At this blog, for instance, there are the following quotes by the writer and commenters about a deal between KC and Seattle:

Paxton:  "It’s no doubt a project but he might be a throw in with a later name mentioned as he’s probably a season or two from being MLB ready."

Maurer: " Another throw in candidate..."

Grab bag: "Gets down to how you value prospects relative to established major leaguers. I think Gordon should return at least Hultzen, Ramirez, Walker, and a couple of A-ball lottery picks." 

o.O

I would rather trade a bowl of artichoke dip for Mark Reynolds than trade Hultzen, Walker, E-Ram AND a couple of low minors guys for the right to employ Alex Gordon.  He's not Miguel Cabrera, sheesh. 

If we're trying to win now and we're gonna do it all with young pitching, then Walker is probably the most expendable of the Big Three.  If we can't sign a bat in FA and use some money on another pitcher, then maybe it's Paxton or Hultzen.

But pieces held too long lose value, especially pitchers.  Jack has to maximize the value of the young kids to us while actually WINNING SOMETHING.  Anything, really, but preferrably bringing us at least a Wild Card chase.  And I'm sure he's under pressure/orders to do just that.

Throwing all the kids overboard a la Bavasi is not likely to be his style, but you never know.

I just hope. ;-)  Chasing a pennant with the most talented kids in your arsenal is still pursuit (see: Oakland 2012).  Praying for good years with Beavan, Cust, Olivo, etc... that's not pursuit.

If we deploy Paxton, Hultzen, E-Ram, The Pen O' Death, Zunino, Montero, Franklin, etc?  I'll consider that a chase engaged, regardless of their struggles. If we trade some of them for a Gordon type and go with Napoli over/alongside Montero? Also pursuit.

But it'll be hard to convince me we're truly chasing anything meaningful if the best and brightest talents remain on the farm, and we don't have bright talents blocking their major league path.  THAT's what I'm waiting to find out from Zduriencik.

~G

 

 

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They don't care how much they lose, as long as they don't get humiliated by, heaven forbid, somebody bluffing them with a bad hand.

There are Seattleites who don't care how lousy their analysis is as long as, heaven forbid, nobody ever calls them a homer.

Paxton as a throw-in?  Without the slightest rancor, that is truly a remark that rules you outside the category of serious analyst.  That's like me commenting on hockey.

..........

The article you quote seems to come out of KC, so I guess it's a little more excusable to call a top-20 prospect a throw-in.  But I've seen some stuff on Seattle blogs that wasn't a lot better.

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We've got young, incredibly talented players at the front of the line. You can't wait for them to look like Willie Mays or Bob Gibson 2 or 3 years running at AAA. You have to roll them out onto Safeco and say, "Go get 'em kid!" Some will struggle, but they will figure it out. If they don't, then you know what you have.

I'm a bit frustrated by the common view that what we have is a bunch of young trade fodder. Getting three years of Gordon for 3 first class arms is an example of that.

"Go get 'em, kid," is indeed chasing a pennant for real. This one or the next one..

I think Z has shown a bit of desperateness, if all the rumors are true. The coomment above is the first one I've seen where he seems to buy in on going with youth, to some degree. Good for him, finally.

If we make a trade, offer up Walker (or somebody Walker-esque) and a young IF and get a bat. If we don't, then let's play the kids, Liddi included. Get Hultzen and Franklin in the rotation soon, Zunino up quick, get Romero to play LF if he's 3B blocked by Seager, get Franklin on the field....and play ball.

We have an incredible stockpile of blue chip prospects. They ain't all trade fodder. Use 'em.

moe

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I hope that Jack isn't under the LincStrong pressure to do something for the sake of doing something. He's saying the right words but his actions will be telling. With the winter meetings on the near horizon, it won't be long until we know how deperate the org really is. The desperation thing could just be agents trying to play up the M's interest in their clients.

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Sounds like Z is already trying to soften the blow of another bargain-bin offseason. Bummer. However, I would think that he may be relieved not to have to sign off on a Hamilton/Swisher/Grienke add with which he is much less than comfortable.

Trades are the area in which Z is most widely regarded to excel. Trades, typically, don't cost very much cash compared to signing FA and I would expect that, if Z really is feeling the heat to improve the club, he would devote the bulk of his energies there.

It sounds like Z is having to accommodate the ownership's wish to emulate the Rays, as much as possible. Sadly, a Felix extension and a trade for a corner OF prospect is all I expect this offseason.

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bsf's picture

bsf

... and a pitcher would be nice. The pitcher doesn't even need to be the top of the market . A two-year stopgap will be sufficient to make us better in the short term. The long term will be covered by the farm. Danny Haren comes to mind. Yes, please hit a grounder to the best SS in the game.

One good hitter is important. And I think Z knows that. Better FA than trade though, in my opinion. There's nobody worth risking the farm for currently available. And next year most of the kids will have even more trade value, because at least Hultzen and Little Nicky will have seen the light of the show, and everyone else is one year closer.

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rick82So nice to see our consolation prize draft pick salvage the weekend of Stasburg, Harper and Rendon.1 hour 46 min ago
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Tacoma RainOh now you have done it... Jinx city... Ackley is about to go zero for thousand20 hours 24 min ago
rick82Ackley is for real. I'm sold. And I didn't think Morales could get even slower. He's an albatross around this offense's neck with his inability to move. He needs more power to justify his spot in this lineup.20 hours 46 min ago
rick82I've taken my grandson to watch 18 innings this week, in which we scored a grand total of 1 run. The problem remains the offense. And last night...James Jones to the rescue? Where's Romero, the guy who's tearing apart AAA? Heck, Ty Kelly, for that matter.23 hours 22 min ago
Tacoma RainAdam Dunn to the A's for minor league relief pitcher.... I wonder how many more moves teams in the playoff hunt will make this year.1 day 32 min ago
Tacoma RainMaybe our players are tired because of all the travelling and due to the stress of all the close games1 day 14 hours ago
IcebreakerXInteresting that the M's haven't been able to find a way to keep Felix & the starters fresh, even with the extremely awesome bullpen.1 day 16 hours ago
GLSWhy is our pitching staff getting worn down as opposed to other teams? Have our starters pitched more innings relative to the rest of the league?1 day 21 hours ago
MtGrizzlyFelix does tend to wear down in September. Troubling implications for October, should they get there.2 days 3 hours ago
SABR MattA shame that homer by Seager in the first didn't stay fair.2 days 14 hours ago
Bat571LaRoche WAS FRAMED ! (very nicely by Zunino - nice job, Mike!)2 days 14 hours ago
SABR MattI am reminded of 2007. The whole pitching staff looks out of gas. We're in trouble.2 days 14 hours ago
merksRendooon!2 days 16 hours ago
PrairiedogIf indeed the name calling was in any way racist (that is IF) by the scout (based on rumor to this point) he deserves to loose his job. Yes self control on Montero&#039;s part should exist but racial slurs by &quot;one of your own&quot; ,then no excuse whatsoever!&quot; Lets see what all the facts are.2 days 18 hours ago
rick82Two frustrated guys who probably want to be higher up in the system.2 days 19 hours ago
SABR MattYeah...I don't think this says one darned thing about Zduriencik. I think this scout probably had a fight with his wife or found out he didn't get approved for a home loan and vented on a player who he didn't like.2 days 20 hours ago
rick82Seems like a lot of folks think this says something about Jack's dysfunctional regime. But wow, talk about a mountain out of a molehill. They both work for the Mariners? This is simple. You bring the 52 year old scout and the 24 year old prospect into the room, and you talk it out, have them apologize where necessary and shake hands, and make sure something like this doesn't happen again. And, yeah, if the story is true, the scout is taken to a back room by Jack and read the riot act for being an idiot, because he sure as heck is supposed to know better.2 days 20 hours ago